facthunter Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 IF you are really busy and it's going pearshaped, concentrate EVERYTHING on the situation of keeping the plane in the air (or controlled or whatever) When you can, point it somewhere safe. You can then tell somebody about your situation. Aviate, navigate, communicate. is always in that order. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Any body else had an efoto? I have and the last thing that came to mind was talking on the radio. You have to fly the plane and seconds are all you have to try to survive. Richard, How many do you want to know about?...........Seriously though,I`ve walked away from everyone because I always had somewhere to land and my complete focus has always been on landing safely. I`ve been advocating, flying within gliding distance of a suitable landing area, for more than thirty years,yet to some pilots, this doesn`t seem to be a priority. No matter how well you Aviate, Navigate and communicate, if there`s nowhere to land safely,chances are you won`t and someone else will be picking up the pieces. Frank. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodiak74 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Have read an interesting suggestion on PPRUNE relating to the throttle friction, and return spring. Basically saying if the friction is not set right (potentially after maintenance) the throttle can kick back to idle as soon as you take you hand off (say to raise the undercarriage). Obviously pure speculation - but also raised in around a similar crash in Witchita - King Air reporting left engine failure on take-off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Richard, How many do you want to know about?...........Seriously though,I`ve walked away from everyone because I always had somewhere to land and my complete focus has always been on landing safely.I`ve been advocating, flying within gliding distance of a suitable landing area, for more than thirty years,yet to some pilots, this doesn`t seem to be a priority. No matter how well you Aviate, Navigate and communicate, if there`s nowhere to land safely,chances are you won`t and someone else will be picking up the pieces. Frank. Frank I was talking about using the radio and not flying the plane as you will know many city airports do not have options for out landings. The throttle friction post is an example of something that could be missed if you are on the radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Frank I was talking about using the radio and not flying the plane as you will know many city airports do not have options for out landings. My apology Richard....I should have realised that....Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 It's pretty normal to keep your hands on the throttles at least to V1. (decision speed) in case you have a failure where you abort without hesitation prior to achieving it. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 My apology Richard....I should have realised that....Cheers. No worries I know what you mean that does apply to our sort of flying. For city airports people are relying on engines not stopping or being able to continue on with one which is what should have happened with this sad event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 It's pretty normal to keep your hands on the throttles at least to V1. (decision speed) in case you have a failure where you abort without hesitation prior to achieving it. Nev Yes but this got well past that didn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 You are 100 percent right farri. Being forced to fly lower than safe to leave unused airspace above us is the single worst risk we take. I think this is forced on us so there will be more crashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Techie, if the throttle friction is an issue to that extent. (That it would or could close off at all when the hands are removed) it's unsafe. I've had aircraft that lack sufficient throttle friction and it's not safe in that condition to be flown. I don't know about this articular model but there's often a friction "nut/lever" that you apply after the throttles are finally set to the take off setting. It doesn't lock anything just increases the friction. Power reduction in a turbo prop engine is easily recognised with change of sound. There are many mysteries with this event. It turned fairly gradually from lift off. Didn't maintain extended runway centreline Was that intentional or not? It didn't get enough speed . Why? Was the power very assymetric. There must be vids of rudder position. Normally when positive climb is achieved, the gear is retracted did this happen or not?. It was down when contact was made with the building. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Yes I find it a mystery as well and people blaming the building for the deaths seems wrong to me I thought it was going to crash anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Aircraft have and will depart runways from time to time for various reasons at airports. The concept of building complexes like those seems all wrong to me. Other vehicles should be able to access the runways easily not necessarily by driving along the whole or part of the length of them also. There used to be a perimeter track on some of that airport (if not all) I can't recall although I've driven a fire truck on part of it while planes landed.. Large signs are not a good idea either. They will certainly create some interesting wind vortices at times. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Nev gear has been confirmed as down still unsure if it was retracted at any point. Very puzzling this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Techie, if the throttle friction is an issue to that extent. (That it would or could close off at all when the hands are removed) it's unsafe. I've had aircraft that lack sufficient throttle friction and it's not safe in that condition to be flown. I don't know about this articular model but there's often a friction "nut/lever" that you apply after the throttles are finally set to the take off setting. It doesn't lock anything just increases the friction. Power reduction in a turbo prop engine is easily recognised with change of sound. There are many mysteries with this event. It turned fairly gradually from lift off. Didn't maintain extended runway centreline Was that intentional or not? It didn't get enough speed . Why? Was the power very assymetric. There must be vids of rudder position. Normally when positive climb is achieved, the gear is retracted did this happen or not?. It was down when contact was made with the building. Nev It's a little quirk on that model; forget it or be caught unawares and you can't feather the prop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Yes I find it a mystery as well and people blaming the building for the deaths seems wrong to me I thought it was going to crash anyway. In an EFATO I was lucky enough to be trained to carry out a forced landing rather than just let go and allow the aircraft to crash. First there was the engine failure, next there was the usual forced landing procedure, but next, and the bonus based on about 20 deaths I'm aware of, we were taught how to fly into the accident, such as stalling tail first before a fence instead of tripping over the top of it, using the wings on trees to deflect the aircraft, and skidding it along the ground, then colliding with a wall at reduced speed rather than hitting it at flying speed. Was this pilot prevented from putting it down on grass ON THE AIRFIELD, and using the boundary fence as a catch fence? I don't know but someone will be logging the trajectory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Just going back to the mayday calls, is it possible for a pax to give a mayday call if the pilot was incapacitated in some way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 I would say that would be possible but imo unlikely in this event, looking at the video the plane seemed quite well controlled before impact so I would say pilot incapacitation would be unlikely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 The aviation company potentially facing a multimillion-dollar lawsuit over the Essendon DFO disaster was told three hours after the crash that the plane involved had been registered in its name. Company told hours after Essendon DFO crash that plane was in its name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted April 6, 2017 Author Share Posted April 6, 2017 200 viewings since I posted the above report and not one comment. Isn't that a bit surprising? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 it's either true or it isn't . Legal argument . Nev. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now