up-into-the-air Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I am astounded to find a FOI request on RTK, summarised below: #casa spends $165,000 on the Avalon airshow Not good enough for an organisation that has been crying "....poor...." to the extent that in 2010, casa went to Minister [at-the-time] Albanese for an increase in avgas/ avtur levy of $27m/ annum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I am astounded to find a FOI request on RTK, summarised below: #casa spends $165,000 on the Avalon airshow Not good enough for an organisation that has been crying "....poor...." to the extent that in 2010, casa went to Minister [at-the-time] Albanese for an increase in avgas/ avtur levy of $27m/ annum. CASA revenue in 2013-14 was approximately $120 million. So that's about 0.13% of annual revenue A 2014 CMD survey by the American Marketing Association and Duke University found that US companies with turnovers from $25 million to $99 million budget for about 9% of turnover. That would be to advertise to around $300 million people and would be a spend of around $10 million. I've used 1% for a company selling to a closed industry market, which is what CASA do - and spend on the CASA revenue in that case would be around $1.2 million. Those are very rough figures, but this information from Voca doesn't seem all that remarkable to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 You only have to see the response and the pretend title of the respondent to see the arrogance that you are dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 You only have to see the response and the pretend title of the respondent to see the arrogance that you are dealing with. Yes, the minute I see the word "stakeholders" I get suspicious, and often the word "Spindoctor" flashes into my mind, but the figures seem to be in the ballpark. Another spend mentioned recently was $30,000 for AirVenture, so you could compare it with that, and both seem reasonable to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I've been to a few casa seminars in the past couple of years.... and the term "arrogance" is something I can relate to in the seminars. Communication/discussion pretty much being a one-way, them to you direction. I've come to the conclusion they know nothing about needs, wants and attitude of recreational pilots. Individuals who have to "pay their own way" are a totally different ball game to commercial organisations and pilots who fly on the company dollar..... and I'll throw the military dollar in there too..... 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAA up-into-the-air Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Maybe CASA revenue in 2013-14 was approximately $120 million.So that's about 0.13% of annual revenue A 2014 CMD survey by the American Marketing Association and Duke University found that US companies with turnovers from $25 million to $99 million budget for about 9% of turnover. That would be to advertise to around $300 million people and would be a spend of around $10 million. I've used 1% for a company selling to a closed industry market, which is what CASA do - and spend on the CASA revenue in that case would be around $1.2 million. Those are very rough figures, but this information from Voca doesn't seem all that remarkable to me. Remember that there are only about 18,000 pilots with valid medicals in the GA/ RPT sphere, so $165,000 is $9 each. #casa were giving away free cups of barista coffee at the event, so one would need two cups to get any value at all. Not the way I want to see my money spent!! Maybe if you look at the #casa annual report, or put in an FOI you could determine what #casa are actually doing. These are a direct reply from Robert Walker on an FOI request.made in July 2017. Other requests can be found on: Results page 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I've been to a few casa seminars in the past couple of years.... and the term "arrogance" is something I can relate to in the seminars.Communication/discussion pretty much being a one-way, them to you direction. I've come to the conclusion they know nothing about needs, wants and attitude of recreational pilots. Individuals who have to "pay their own way" are a totally different ball game to commercial organisations and pilots who fly on the company dollar..... and I'll throw the military dollar in there too..... I'd say: (a) paying their own way, and (b) flying less than 100 hours per year would create different needs to RPT What would be a few bullet points on needs, wants and attitude of recreational pilots, they could do with hearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 MaybeRemember that there are only about 18,000 pilots with valid medicals in the GA/ RPT sphere, so $165,000 is $9 each. #casa were giving away free cups of barista coffee at the event, so one would need two cups to get any value at all. Not the way I want to see my money spent!! Maybe if you look at the #casa annual report, or put in an FOI you could determine what #casa are actually doing. These are a direct reply from Robert Walker on an FOI request.made in July 2017. Other requests can be found on: Results page 1 I personally think major shows are a waste of money and an opportunity for snouts in the trough. Some displays get some good results some of the time, but mostly the net gain is small. Having said that, the biannual National Airshow is a venue where CASA would be expected to have a stand What they do with that stand would probably be more relevant than what it cost. As far as the Rob Cummings "FoI, I like CASA don't recognise it as the FoIs that I deal with. He requested total costs; was informed it was not recognised as FoI, but given the answer was non contentious and probably already computed, the $165,000 was provided by the PR Manager. The other link you posted is a good example of what not to do if you don't want to be considered as a lone pest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 .... so $165,000 is $9 each. #casa were giving away free cups of barista coffee at the event, so one would need two cups to get any value at all..... They were giving away free barista coffee during the trade days so I got my money's worth. Even better, I didn't talk to any CASA staff ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 How does the $165k compare to how much given to RAA and others to manage their compliance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Ive been to two casa safety preso's and while its great they are trying to do something they were seriously, bad , boring and lacked impact... seemed more like a paid travel junket than anything of substance... i do hope they get better with time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_perth Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I've been to two CASA info sessions for pilots in Jandakot and I think they both were of value to me and I will go again when they are back in town. I'm happy to pay whatever it is I pay to them in the course of keeling my license valid and for them to spend some of thatvmobey attending airshows and the like...they are helping to keep us all safe. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Airshows allow an important opportunity for CASA staff to meet and get to know future employers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Of CASA staff? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluf7 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Come to NZ our CAA are excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Knight Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 The major part of the spend would have been for the site and associated add on like power etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up-into-the-air Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 Did some checking Bernie, site was around $15K on it's own. Still leaves $150K unaccounted for!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 you can't expect staff to camp there, or eat mcdonalds or hitch hike there and back. nor could you expect a future employer to drink coke and eat pies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 you can't expect staff to camp there, or eat mcdonalds or hitch hike there and back. nor could you expect a future employer to drink coke and eat pies There's a lot more to a show budget than site rental. The crew that designs and builds the stand will be there for about three days setting up and a day or so pulling down, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRviator Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Did some checking Bernie, site was around $15K on it's own. Still leaves $150K unaccounted for!! Could have included staff costs. Was going to cost me $1600 for a CASA AWI to issue an Experimental Cert for the RV-9. $160/Hr x 10 hrs work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Knight Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Sorry when I said site and add on I should have been more specific; Site cost, site preparation, four individually custom made 5 metre panels with 42" inch screens, display portals, platforms and consoles.. Handout and other giveaways. Transport and set up bump out costs by outside contractors. Insurance requirements to set up and ensure display safety. Then add in staff costs to be at the event and getting there; staff transfers, vehicle hire, staff allowances, meals, accommodation, wages, overtime, days owed in lieu, etc. I would guess total staff cost alone over 6 days would be a minimum of $2500 per person per day. At events we have displayed at the costs soon add up. :faint:Just my thoughts based on our companies organising and running of Australia's largest one day auto events and the Wings Wheels and Water at Point Cook in the early 90's. The later event was held only once due to ridiculous costs and add on by insurance companies etc.and the responsible management company for the Point Cook Airbase - Australian Property Managers if I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 If the figure included staff salaries, then these were going to be paid out anyway. The meaningful figure would be the cost of attendance net of staff salaries. And another related thing...How the government justifies paying obscene salaries to the heads of bureaucracies like CASA leaves me angry and disgusted. Maybe it is to make them aloof and arrogant? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 A culture of a sheltered workshop of an "authority" that hasn't responded to numerous audits reviews, over many years now. Without action from a competent minister, with a clue about aviation and the desire to change things, nothing will happen. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 A culture of a sheltered workshop of an "authority" that hasn't responded to numerous audits reviews, over many years now. Without action from a competent minister, with a clue about aviation and the desire to change things, nothing will happen. Nev Can you two give any examples of these obscene salaries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Sure Turbs. Any bureaucrat earning more than his minister ... this is about $350,000. Personally I think this is also too much. But the head of CASA gets over 600,000.Wow thats obscene 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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