BASIC CLASS 2 - PRIVATE PILOT MEDICAL ANNOUNCED!

[turboplanner]

But CASA does not let the doctor actually decide.......The doctor doesn’t actually decide you are fit to fly, he decides if you fit the list defined by CASA.

The list, along with any other Australian or International standards become the benchmarks. If you check the pilot against the list and he/she met the criteria, the relatives fight is with the criteria, in other words with CASA, not you.

[Jaba-who]

The list, along with any other Australian or International standards become the benchmarks. If you check the pilot against the list and he/she met the criteria, the relatives fight is with the criteria, in other words with CASA, not you.

But when a bad outcome happens everyone involved is lumped together. Regardless of common sense everyone gets tarred as being culpable. The less input you have the less risk you carry.So make no decisions you carry much less risk.

 

 

[mAgNeToDrOp]

Disappointing, CASA fail to deliver again (by mistake on purpose) Liability insurers must be squirming if the DAME's take up this option (read increase the premiums..) Just my opinion (2 cents) from the outside looking in..

 

 

[turboplanner]

But when a bad outcome happens everyone involved is lumped together. Regardless of common sense everyone gets tarred as being culpable. The less input you have the less risk you carry.So make no decisions you carry much less risk.

Disclaimer; I am not a lawyer, I'm only generalising on my previous experience. They may all receive communications from the plaintiff's lawyers, but it usually quickly becomes obvious particular people are worthwhile pursuing. For example, if I was suing someone, and they were able to show that their actions complied with a recognised standard, they would be unlikely to take it anyfurther.

 

Hopefully when the rules come out, the DAMES can relax, and we will have a simpler system available.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Disclaimer; I am not a lawyer, I'm only generalising on my previous experience. They may all receive communications from the plaintiff's lawyers, but it usually quickly becomes obvious particular people are worthwhile pursuing. For example, if I was suing someone, and they were able to show that their actions complied with a recognised standard, they would be unlikely to take it anyfurther.Hopefully when the rules come out, the DAMES can relax, and we will have a simpler system available.

“Deepest pockets is deepest guilt”Bad outcome equals negligence in most people’s minds.

 

My latest copy of my medical defence journal carries a salutary story where a surgeon was found negligent this year for not using a particular technique in a hernia repair. Two “experts” gave opinion it should have been done a particular way. Two others said it was standard modern technique to NOT do it that way. ( and I gas for at least one hernia a week with about 5 different surgeons and not one has used that technique as standard for a decade or more. ) But the court found surgeon negligent for not doing the technique even though no currently accepted reason to do it.

 

The literature is full of similar stories.

 

The two doctors who gave Barry Hempel the medicals prior to his crash where a passenger died were pursued for about a decade and they just fulfilled the old style medical without making a detirmination of his fitness to fly.

 

 

[turboplanner]

“Deepest pockets is deepest guilt”Bad outcome equals negligence in most people’s minds.My latest copy of my medical defence journal carries a salutary story where a surgeon was found negligent this year for not using a particular technique in a hernia repair. Two “experts” gave opinion it should have been done a particular way. Two others said it was standard modern technique to NOT do it that way. ( and I gas for at least one hernia a week with about 5 different surgeons and not one has used that technique as standard for a decade or more. ) But the court found surgeon negligent for not doing the technique even though no currently accepted reason to do it.

 

The literature is full of similar stories.

 

The two doctors who gave Barry Hempel the medicals prior to his crash where a passenger died were pursued for about a decade and they just fulfilled the old style medical without making a detirmination of his fitness to fly.

"Deepest pockets is deepest guilt" is just BS and should be on Snopes; I've read many cases where the negligent person had very few assets, and was pursued based on blatant negligence.For those who don't understand the principles, the key points which decided the cases are often missed based on their own day to day values. Not saying this is what happened in this journal article.

 

It doesn't surprise me that the CASA bashing just rolls on, even when a great opportunity comes up.

 

Take up or not doesn't really matter to CASA; if the doctors don't want to take advantage of the protection available under this system, they can simply post the rules, and step out of any involvement at all

 

 

[Jaba-who]

[quote="turboplanner, post: 652740, member: 655.....snip......

 

Take up or not doesn't really matter to CASA; if the doctors don't want to take advantage of the protection available under this system, they can simply post the rules, and step out of any involvement at all

 

That’s what I said!

 

Bazinga!

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I reckon Turbs lives in a theoretical world where every judge is wise and fair and Jaba lives in the real world.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well went to the Dr on thursday. Passed my yearly commercial drivers medical again with flying colours. Eye tests hearing tests colourblind, urine, all medical tests all signed off by my cardiologist (had a echo and yearly consult last month) and family doctor who knows ALL of my history. So come on CASA get this basic private medical going

 

If its good enough for me to drive a B Double fulled loaded surely its fine for me to fly a under 1500kg aircraft OCTA

 

 

[SSCBD]

This med 2 requirement for flying pvt aircraft say 4 seat SINGLE engine GA Cessna or piper etc types, is just flat out crap. Also keeps the government fingers in your wallet and the wheel turning, and to have and keep public servant kingdom going in government which we have way to much of everywhere.

 

If you can drive a car that is APPROVED by a GP for your license, THEN you can fly a Cessna. Its not like we are flying 500 ton of A380's or 747's, Why are we so behind the world instead of leading for GA.

 

(And lets not start of stupid cost and BS of an ASIC where a local police check would be the simple as if you are on a Fed list, I am sure all the red flashing lights would go off on the police computer, if the Feds were looking for you).

 

And by the way - a few GA guys out back, who own their aircraft and flown for years now fly without any BFR or Medicals. It is not relevant to them and is just hoops to jump through with CASA, which they now refuse to do. In other words they are sick of the red tape and rules for the sake of rules, not safety. And - Do they care - NO. No GP can predict a heart attack as we have seen with fit healthy fitness guys and they have died without any warning.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I reckon Turbs lives in a theoretical world where every judge is wise and fair and Jaba lives in the real world.

Once again, the implication of what has happened, and the AOPA reaction has sailed straight over a number of heads. Your loss.

[turboplanner]

And by the way - a few GA guys out back, who own their aircraft and flown for years now fly without any BFR or Medicals. It is not relevant to them and is just hoops to jump through with CASA, which they now refuse to do.

While nothing happens nothing happens, unless Casa get wind of it and pounce. However if they kill or injure someone due to a medical issue they can face criminal charges in addition to being sued, and their insurance cover may be denied. I agree finding and seeing a Dame and going through the current process is the most difficult and inconvenient process in flying, and would be far worse if it involved a couple of days travel to a capital city.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Even if you stay in bed all day, there is some risk. Personally, I choose activities which are fun and so I choose to accept a higher level of risk than staying in bed.

 

To put it more strongly, I reckon extremely risk-averse people actually have a mental health problem.

 

Nobody on this forum falls into this category, but there are actually some people who rarely venture outside their houses because the world out there is so dangerous.

 

So I am going to continue to do things like fly friends in my Jabiru even though turbs is right and there are dire consequences if things go wrong. I reckon the risk is small and the fun is big so the risk is worth taking.

 

That last sentence could be among a list of famous last words huh.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Don

 

Even if you stay in bed all day, there is some risk. Personally, I choose activities which are fun and so I choose to accept a higher level of risk than staying in bed. To put it more strongly, I reckon extremely risk-averse people actually have a mental health problem.Nobody on this forum falls into this category, but there are actually some people who rarely venture outside their houses because the world out there is so dangerous.

 

So I am going to continue to do things like fly friends in my Jabiru even though turbs is right and there are dire consequences if things go wrong. I reckon the risk is small and the fun is big so the risk is worth taking.

 

That last sentence could be among a list of famous last words huh.

Don’t get excited there Bruce, you’re already way ahead in terms of freedom compared to having to go through the process to get a Class 2. This doesn’t affect the RPC.

[dunlopdangler]

Early April I fronted my DAME for a class 2 medical renewal and I had the new medical certificate on my email before I left the surgery. Compared to the old system where the DAME revalidates for two months while CASA issues a new one, It is easy as now. Ever since I turned 60, I do the medical first, then ASIC, then AFR.. If and when I struggle to get through all of that, I'll then give it away and have good memories of my flying adventures. I'm not going to try and find a lessor standard of medical or licence to fly, but that is just me and my personal benchmarks. I've already bought a bigger boat☺

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Early April I fronted my DAME for a class 2 medical renewal and I had the new medical certificate on my email before I left the surgery. Compared to the old system where the DAME revalidates for two months while CASA issues a new one, It is easy as now. Ever since I turned 60, I do the medical first, then ASIC, then AFR.. If and when I struggle to get through all of that, I'll then give it away and have good memories of my flying adventures. I'm not going to try and find a lessor standard of medical or licence to fly, but that is just me and my personal benchmarks. I've already bought a bigger boat☺

It's a fine sentiment but relies on correctness in the belief that your personal minimum is valid.How would you feel if enough evidence were presented to you that your current personal minimum was actually excessive and that you could safely continue at a lower minimum?

 

Of course we are all tempted to lower that standard as we can't reach the old one. The real challenge is being correct in the interpretation that the lower standard is just as valid as the old one not just wishful thinking.

 

If it's not but you accept it anyway it marks the onset of incompetence and I agree that's not something to encourage and I don't wish to allow it to happen to me.

 

In the light of the current debate about the Basic Class 2 the current Class 2 standard has been shown to actually be set way too high and that lowering the standard does not mean you would be flying unsafely. Merely that the previous standard was inappropriately high.

 

There is no shame and much gain in amending your standards where appropriate.

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

Jaba, i am very aware that the current medical standards are unjust and too high for pilots even up to commercial. I'm hoping that CASA eventually adopts the UK model in regard to medical standards so I and others can continue exercising the full privliges of our current licenses as age related crap fogs the current benchmarks.

 

 

[mAgNeToDrOp]

Seems the BASIC class 2 needs you to pass the Austroads Commercial Drivers license unconditionally. Don't see much change here :( (Not sure why I'm surprised.)

 

Classes of medical certificates

 

"If applicants unconditionally meet the standard (except for glasses and hearing aids), they will be issued with a Basic Class 2 medical certificate by CASA."

 

Else go get a Class 2 via DAME

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Typical.....CASA are full of sh*t as usual then..as you say no change. I still maintain if I can drive a fully laden Bdouble at 64000 KG down the gateway you should be able to fly a aircraft of 8618 KG OCTA. A commercial drivers licence is a commercial drivers licence. If you pass it then you pass it

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

The CASA medical has not actually changed AT ALL. Basic Med also has the completely unwarranted restriction of piston engine as if that has anything to do with medical fitness particularly in light of coming electric/jet/turboprop engines and aircraft becoming available. Of course driving a vehicle of any kind on the roads puts innocent third parties and other road users at far higher risk than flying a small aircraft does in the air. Totally irrational risk analysis and a complete lack of any rational cost/benefit analysis.

 

In other news, the Pope IS a Catholic, the sun did rise in the east this morning and bears DO go potty in the woods.

 

Also while CASA agonises with RAAus over weight increase to 760 Kg, gliders and motorgliders which weigh up to 850 Kg , aren't necessarily maintained in an approved workshop (even for flight training), are being flown by pilots on a self declaration medical including in Class C,D and E airspace and even above 10,000 feet.

 

I'd say the weight increase experiment has been done, as has the experiment as to whether it is a good idea to run multiple GA regulatory systems (it isn't). It doesn't matter who administers the rules, it matters what they are.

 

.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Some years ago there was a flood-bound group of road-train drivers at Kulgera on the Stuart Highway. When I went to ask them about when the road would reopen ( they had sat phones etc ), I noticed no beer-guts hanging out.

 

"how could you guys be truck drivers without beer-guts" I asked...

 

"Those beer-gut guys all failed their medicals" was the answer.

 

 

[mAgNeToDrOp]

Meanwhile in UK, Canada, NZ? ....CASA is stuck in the dark ages. Can't even fly a 172 out in the sticks without a safety pilot (T1 Diabetes), but in UK I can be a commercial Airline pilot. I give up..

 

 

[David Isaac]

Seems the BASIC class 2 needs you to pass the Austroads Commercial Drivers license unconditionally. Don't see much change here :( (Not sure why I'm surprised.)Classes of medical certificates

 

"If applicants unconditionally meet the standard (except for glasses and hearing aids), they will be issued with a Basic Class 2 medical certificate by CASA."

 

Else go get a Class 2 via DAME

Mag,

Except this time the Basic Class 2 medical standard is "exactly the same as the commercial driver standard (Austroads)" this is quoted directly from the CASA 'Classes of Medical Certificates' page you provided the link for. So it has changed, before it was the Austroads plus a whole lot of other CASA requirements which meant most of us who had some minor problem that suspended our original class 1s or 2s (in my case 4 migraine headaches) could never get what was the old RAMPC. On this basis if it is what they say "exactly the same as the commercial driver standard (Austroads)", then, most of us could pass at least that.

 

So unless I am reading this incorrectly it has changed for the better. So am I reading this correctly?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

You are reading it wrong..that word "UNCONDITIONAL" stuffs anyone who has a condition on their commercial licence like me. if you have diabeties no matter what type of had stents or bypasses you drive on condition and MUST have a 12 month full check of everything to make sure you are still fine. I just went through mine again 2 months ago. Everything is fine as usual and as I expected but I do it "on condition"...so I am deemed to be perfectly safe to have a Austroads commercial licence BUT not a Basic medical according to CASA

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

This is the part

 

If applicants unconditionally meet the standard (except for glasses and hearing aids), they will be issued with a Basic Class 2 medical certificate by CASA.

 

If you do not pass the Basic Class 2 medical assessment, or you have a pre-existing medical condition, you can still apply for a Class 2 medical certificate where you will be assessed in further detail by a DAME.