Drifter ,Tail dragger ?

[Gregory]

Hi all ,

 

Being a new drifter owner and as yet not ever having flown in one !

 

Ive heared on this forum that the Drifter is like having a tail dragger that is not really a tail dragger ??

 

Would anyone care to explain more about this to me please ,

 

Thanks .

 

 

[facthunter]

Hair splitting. I wouldn't get too worked up about it. As far as I'm concerned it's a tailwheel aircraft, and I treat it as such. Nev

 

 

[Gregory]

Hair splitting. I wouldn't get too worked up about it. As far as I'm concerned it's a tailwheel aircraft, and I treat it as such. Nev

Now thats the kind of answer i like, straight to the point, cheers Nev.

 

 

[kasper]

It’s a tailwheel aircraft where the ground attitude is much flatter than the stall attitude. So unlike many tailwheel aircraft where ground attitude is close to the stall attitude and as a result they are a bit more of a handful.

 

Agree with facthunter though they are a tailwheel aircraft. When you get to that point find an instructor with drifter experience or get your tailwheel endorsement then go flying with another drifter pilot and you’ll pick it up in no time.

 

 

[Gregory]

Cheers kasper,

 

That makes a lot of sence.

 

 

[farri]

,Ive heared on this forum that the Drifter is like having a tail dragger that is not really a tail dragger ??.

That statement says nothing factual or useful, take no notice of it! The Drifter is a Tail Drager and needs to be treated as such...To fly your Drifter legally, you will need a TW endorsement.

 

Frank,

 

Ps, In case you`re wondering! I hold both TW (tail wheel) and NW (nose wheel) endorsements` and instructed for 12 years, in my Drifter.

 

 

[Gregory]

That statement says nothing factual or useful, take no notice of it! The Drifter is a Tail Drager and needs to be treated as such...To fly your Drifter legally, you will need a TW endorsement.Frank,

 

Ps, In case you`re wondering! I hold both TW (tail wheel) and NW (nose wheel) endorsements` and instructed for 12 years, in my Drifter.

Thanks Frank,

Do you still instruct ? As im looking for someone to teach me !

 

 

[farri]

Do you still instruct ?

Gregory, I retired from instructing several years ago! I fly from my own property, here at Deeral, 45 k south of Cairns so we`re a bit far apart but if you are ever in the Cairns area, I`ll be happy to take you flying.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Gregory]

Gregory, I retired from instructing several years ago! I fly from my own property, here at Deeral, 45 k south of Cairns so we`re a bit far apart but if you are ever in the Cairns area, I`ll be happy to take you flying.Frank.

Thank you Frank , i hope to take you up on that offer one day !

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Because the attitude is a bit on the flat side, you have to watch out that you don't wheelbarrow the landing. Have done that and it gives the undercarriage legs a bit of a hammering

 

 

[Callahan]

Well said Nev!

 

I'm an old Beech 18 freight pilot, one of the few to have survived years of it. I can say without a doubt that the Drifter is very much a real taildragger as you stated. Subject to even more vagaries of wind & weather than a big taildragger. It's nimble of course but can be a handful at times.

 

Was landing in some wicked winds two days ago with our field surrounded by trees. It took every bit of my concentration to keep our little friend within the confines of our 250 foot wide runway. As you succintly stated, "treat it as such."

 

Hair splitting. I wouldn't get too worked up about it. As far as I'm concerned it's a tailwheel aircraft, and I treat it as such. Nev

[Gregory]

Well said Nev!I'm an old Beech 18 freight pilot, one of the few to have survived years of it. I can say without a doubt that the Drifter is very much a real taildragger as you stated. Subject to even more vagaries of wind & weather than a big taildragger. It's nimble of course but can be a handful at times.

 

Was landing in some wicked winds two days ago with our field surrounded by trees. It took every bit of my concentration to keep our little friend within the confines of our 250 foot wide runway. As you succintly stated, "treat it as such."

Thanks for the input callahan ,

I would be very interested to know what type of weather the drifter can handle with a capable pilot at the controls ?

 

Merry Christmas.

 

 

[M61A1]

I consider myself to be a very average pilot, and I know that you can land with a 22kt crosswind, and have regularly operated out of a private strip with trees on both sides, that is too narrow to do a 'U' turn in a Drifter. I don't consider it a difficult aircraft. With a good stiff headwind, you can take off and land in that 250 ft.

 

 

[facthunter]

Being highwing and a fair sized rudder , If you are game and used to putting the wing way down. It will handle that sort of wind. but I'm NOT going to stipulate a limit. It's the Plane and pilot combo that determines X/W capability, and if it's gusting it's harder to handle. The U/C legs are relatively easily bent. I've not done it yet but have seen a few taxy in with the tell tale wing low look.. Nev

 

 

[Callahan]

Gregory!

 

Yes, Merry Christmas to you & family also!

 

So, weather, winds & a Drifter? I started in '79 with terror-dactyl & have loved this type of flying since then. If you saw my first video, Drifter Flying by William Catalina, that should explain it.

 

It's really up to the pilot as to how much crosswind a Drifter can handle. I take every ad

 

I didn't finish that because our Federal Aviation boys had my ass picked up & thrown in jail! My wife just bailed me out! One of you Aussies snitched! Shame!

 

Because the attitude is a bit on the flat side, you have to watch out that you don't wheelbarrow the landing. Have done that and it gives the undercarriage legs a bit of a hammering

Thanks for the input callahan ,I would be very interested to know what type of weather the drifter can handle with a capable pilot at the controls ?

Merry Christmas.

I consider myself to be a very average pilot, and I know that you can land with a 22kt crosswind, and have regularly operated out of a private strip with trees on both sides, that is too narrow to do a 'U' turn in a Drifter. I don't consider it a difficult aircraft. With a good stiff headwind, you can take off and land in that 250 ft.

[Callahan]

Gregory!Yes, Merry Christmas to you & family also!

 

So, weather, winds & a Drifter? I started in '79 with terror-dactyl & have loved this type of flying since then. If you saw my first video, Drifter Flying by William Catalina, that should explain it.

 

It's really up to the pilot as to how much crosswind a Drifter can handle. I take every ad

M61.....if you say so, I believe you.

 

You & Nev have helped me a lot in trying to figure out the vibration on my Trike 503. Can't remember if I told you or not , but I sent that motor off to my overhauler three times. He gave up after tearing it down for the third time. Said its the first motor he's ever had that he couldn't fix. Yep! That's me!

 

Now, on crosswinds in a Drifter, it can be a handful in gusty winds just like any other a/c. Trees & buildings make it worse.

 

At our grass strip (2JO) in Florida, we've had five a/c related deaths in 12 years. Two in a chopper. Hit power lines. Ours is what we call a "podunk" airport, meaning rarely used. So 5 in 12 is a lot. Students are not allowed in here.

 

 

[farri]

I would be very interested to know what type of weather the drifter can handle with a capable pilot at the controls ?.

I think we all would! but some of those who tried to find out, arn`t with us anymore!

 

There`s an old saying that goes something like this! " It`s better to be down here wishing you were up there, than being up there wishing you were down here!"

 

I`ve done a lot of "being up there wishing I was down here" but I havn`t yet found what my Drifter is really capable of, what I have found though, is, what I`m capable of, with my Drifter and what weather I`m prepared to fly in!

 

Keep in mind that regardless of what weather the Drifter and pilot are capable of, in this country we are restricted to VMC.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Gregory]

I think we all would! but some of those who tried to find out, arn`t with us anymore!There`s an old saying that goes something like this! " It`s better to be down here wishing you were up there, than being up there wishing you were down here!"

 

I`ve done a lot of "being up there wishing I was down here" but I havn`t yet found what my Drifter is really capable of, what I have found though, is, what I`m capable of, with my Drifter and what weather I`m prepared to fly in!

 

Keep in mind that regardless of what weather the Drifter and pilot are capable of, in this country we are restricted to VMC.

 

Frank.

Fantastic answer Frank .

 

 

[Callahan]

Frank,

 

You & Nev & M61should've been writers! All of you do a fine job of it with you Frank getting the top spot for the best great answer.

 

I can relate this one very bad incident of how much weather an ultralight can take. Unfortunately, it wasn't a Drifter but my 503 powered Trike.....

 

It was getting late, friend (rider) and I were at a very make-shift, isolated spot surrounded by trees, weather coming in, roll cloud ahead of it. And naturally between us & my home strip.

 

What to do? No tie downs, no rope (stupid), being the PIC I elected to takeoff into it. My experienced mate/rider was equally as dumb as me & agreed to it.

 

Got out okay but within one mile we met the gust front! I couldn't yell at my pal to helped me with the control bar because of the noise & I had all I could do to keep us upright! It was totally wild! Actually just about out of control.

 

Don't know if any of you have ever flown a Trike with a big, hi-lift wing but they are a handful in normal summer thermals with NO wind!

 

Then here comes the roll cloud! I fully expected the wing to collapse as I shot a glance at the wildly thrashing trees below! Updraft, downdraft, sideways this way & that, power on, power off, groundspeed maybe 5 mph, just enough to see minimal forward movement below. My arms took a battering but I was in great shape back then. Now, at 68, crash!

 

No rain thank God but it spit us out about 5 miles later. The most terrifying ride of my life & your listening to a 68 year old Beech 18 freight pilot. Believe me, I have seen the elephant but this was terrifying!

 

We made it of course but you young guys out there.....Do Not Push the Weather! It will kill you. Fly smart! Not stupid! If you need to camp out & wait it out....pitch a tent!

 

Today I carry spare tools, spare parts, rope, cell phone, first aid kit, pop up tent etc. in my Trike & Drifter. Sand bags are great to fill & bury for a makeshift tiedown where now is available. I carry 8 of them (empty). LOL.

 

I think we all would! but some of those who tried to find out, arn`t with us anymore!There`s an old saying that goes something like this! " It`s better to be down here wishing you were up there, than being up there wishing you were down here!"

 

I`ve done a lot of "being up there wishing I was down here" but I havn`t yet found what my Drifter is really capable of, what I have found though, is, what I`m capable of, with my Drifter and what weather I`m prepared to fly in!

 

Keep in mind that regardless of what weather the Drifter and pilot are capable of, in this country we are restricted to VMC.

 

Frank.

[Gregory]

Frank,You & Nev & M61should've been writers! All of you do a fine job of it with you Frank getting the top spot for the best great answer.

 

I can relate this one very bad incident of how much weather an ultralight can take. Unfortunately, it wasn't a Drifter but my 503 powered Trike.....

 

It was getting late, friend (rider) and I were at a very make-shift, isolated spot surrounded by trees, weather coming in, roll cloud ahead of it. And naturally between us & my home strip.

 

What to do? No tie downs, no rope (stupid), being the PIC I elected to takeoff into it. My experienced mate/rider was equally as dumb as me & agreed to it.

 

Got out okay but within one mile we met the gust front! I couldn't yell at my pal to helped me with the control bar because of the noise & I had all I could do to keep us upright! It was totally wild! Actually just about out of control.

 

Don't know if any of you have ever flown a Trike with a big, hi-lift wing but they are a handful in normal summer thermals with NO wind!

 

Then here comes the roll cloud! I fully expected the wing to collapse as I shot a glance at the wildly thrashing trees below! Updraft, downdraft, sideways this way & that, power on, power off, groundspeed maybe 5 mph, just enough to see minimal forward movement below. My arms took a battering but I was in great shape back then. Now, at 68, crash!

 

No rain thank God but it spit us out about 5 miles later. The most terrifying ride of my life & your listening to a 68 year old Beech 18 freight pilot. Believe me, I have seen the elephant but this was terrifying!

 

We made it of course but you young guys out there.....Do Not Push the Weather! It will kill you. Fly smart! Not stupid! If you need to camp out & wait it out....pitch a tent!

 

Today I carry spare tools, spare parts, rope, cell phone, first aid kit, pop up tent etc. in my Trike & Drifter. Sand bags are great to fill & bury for a makeshift tiedown where now is available. I carry 8 of them (empty). LOL. [ATTACH=full]53201[/ATTACH]

Wow, i also own and fly a trike , have flown in some rubbish air but nothing like you just explained !!! Scary stuff !

 

 

[David Isaac]

Frank,You & Nev & M61should've been writers! All of you do a fine job of it with you Frank getting the top spot for the best great answer.

 

Today I carry spare tools, spare parts, rope, cell phone, first aid kit, pop up tent etc. in my Trike & Drifter. Sand bags are great to fill & bury for a makeshift tiedown where now is available. I carry 8 of them (empty). LOL. [ATTACH=full]53201[/ATTACH]

Hey Callahan,

That little Maxair of yours looks great. Not many of them remaining in Oz, most are modified Australian versions of either ‘Austflight’ or ‘Fisher’ varieties. One of the Fisher models was registered as a GA aircraft and certified for aerobatics. We know they are strong enough for aerobatics, we just are not allowed to in Oz (except for Wayne Fisher’s GA one, which seems to have disappeared following Wayne’s death). We tragically lost Wayne a few years ago now, a big loss to the Drifter community. The Aus versions are heavier than the Maxiar. I personally loved the Maxair version because of its agility.

 

Some company in Oz has all the Drifter manufacturing rights, but has done nothing with it. They are arguably one of the best open cockpit ultralights to grace our shores. Ther are a few here on pontoons (floats) as well.

 

That is a big ‘bang water’ tank on the back of yours how much fuel do you carry.

 

 

[Geoff13]

One of the Fisher models was registered as a GA aircraft and certified for aerobatics. We know they are strong enough for aerobatics, we just are not allowed to in Oz (except for Wayne Fisher’s GA one, which seems to have disappeared following Wayne’s death).

I believe that this one is for sale ATM. Advertised on the drifter facebook page.

 

 

[facthunter]

Callahan, just to set the record straight. I made a very conscious decision to not mix weight shift with 3 axis in the 80's. Thought it might compromise my "instinctive" reactions, (such as they are) to do both (seriously) at the same time. I also don't mind flying in a negative "G" situation which is a no no for weightshift.. Started in a DH C-1 followed by the DH 82 In the fifties so I'm sort of a tailwheel desperate. I don't mind 2 strokes (stinkwheels in the US.) I like the drifter Flys a bit like a tiger moth (with visibility +) My other flying is done on powered 2 wheelers. (with sometimes 3)..Nev

 

 

[farri]

Wow, i also own and fly a trike , have flown in some rubbish air but nothing like you just explained !!! Scary stuff !

Don`t recall the date but I do recall the incident or accident if you prefer...Two guys came out from England, to circumnavigate Australia with their Trikes`.

 

When they got to the Daintree section, the weather got bad enough that they decided to land on a beach and sit it out, unfortunately, due to the strong crosswind coming from the ocean, both trikes were damaged on landing and couldn`t be flown so they had to get back to Cairns by barge, to repair them.

 

Frank,

 

Ps, At that time, Chris Bolton, from Cairns, used to do some flying with his Trike, from our property here at Deeral...When he found out that the two guys` from England were coming, he said to me and I quote, " Circumnavigating Australia is something that should be done by an Australian"...Within a couple of days, he was packed and took off from the property, here...Eventually, he landed back here, on our property, claiming to be the first to circumnavigate Australia...I have no way of knowing if that is correct.

 

 

[farri]

Callahan, just to set the record straight. I made a very conscious decision to not mix weight shift with 3 axis in the 80's. Thought it might compromise my "instinctive" reactions ..Nev

After having a couple of tandem of flights in Trikes, I also made the conscious decision, for the same reason.

 

There are a couple of reasons I don`t want to fly trikes, the most important one for me is they don`t have a verticle fin and rudder and therefore, they don`t have the same directional control, as three axis, in a crosswind.

 

My main strip is 510 mts end to end by 30 mts wide... I keep the runway mowed at 5 mts wide ( to keep my footwork up to speed ) with grass around 1 mt high on both sides...I fly with 90 degrees of crosswind often and I wouldn`t like to be doing it with a Trike.

 

Frank,