APenNameAndThatA Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I anticipate learning to fly in my own Foxbat. I was phoning around local schools to see if any of their instructors had time in them, even if the school did not actually use them. One (very experienced) instructor said that he could teach me in it even though he had never flown the type: a plane is a plane and their school had a Eurofox which is simililar. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExJourno Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 There's other factors I'd worry about before the fact he isn't flown a Foxbat... Ticks in my book would be... - he checks the manual - takes the plane for a fly - ensures he is familiar with specifics of your aircraft - all the above are done before he starts teach you I look at it this way... a quick famil is all you need to jump in another plane in our class of flying. Your Pilot Certificate doesn't say "allowed to fly a foxbat only"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdarby Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Go to the school at Caboolture, they use Foxbat's. Lots of experience. No way I would get into a plane with someone who wasn't intimate with it. Foxbat's do not fly exactly the same as others, and someone may have a few rough hours until they are used to it. There is no reason you can't find a Foxbat experienced instructor in Brisbane, they are quite common here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Go to the school at Caboolture, they use Foxbat's. Lots of experience. No way I would get into a plane with someone who wasn't intimate with it. Foxbat's do not fly exactly the same as others, and someone may have a few rough hours until they are used to it. There is no reason you can't find a Foxbat experienced instructor in Brisbane, they are quite common here. Thank you for your replies. Since I posted, I have found an instructor at Archerfield who has 30 hrs in a Foxbat and that was when they taught someone else to fly in it. Plusses for Archerfield: I need to get a RPL and radio ticket, so starting with a VH school at Archerfield would be good, and they are much closer to home than Caboolture. Plusses for Caboolture: they know the Foxbat well (but they are an RAA school). Gympie is a VH (and RAA) school that knows all about the Foxbat, but I would need to stay there while I learnt to fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRviator Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I anticipate learning to fly in my own Foxbat. I was phoning around local schools to see if any of their instructors had time in them, even if the school did not actually use them. One (very experienced) instructor said that he could teach me in it even though he had never flown the type: a plane is a plane and their school had a Eurofox which is simililar. Thoughts? I could probably teach someone to fly a 737 even though I've never flown one, too... I flew in a FoxBat today (3rd time) for my BFR after 18 months flying my RV and it was different enough to cause a few hiccups. I wouldn't want to try to learn from someone who themselves is learning the plane!Don't stress too much about the RAAus aspect. Learn under RAAus in a Foxbat, send the form off to CAsA to RPL your RPL (sorry, couldn't resist...), and away you go. The only limitation may be if your Foxbat is VH-... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I second the recommend for Caboolture Recreational Aviation. Some very experienced Foxbat instructors there. No reason why you can't do your RAA Certificate there and then go on to Gympie or Archerfield for your RPL. Either way you won't be able to do your RAA and RPL in the same plane, unless you change it from RAA to VH rego in between steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 I second the recommend for Caboolture Recreational Aviation. Some very experienced Foxbat instructors there.No reason why you can't do your RAA Certificate there and then go on to Gympie or Archerfield for your RPL. Either way you won't be able to do your RAA and RPL in the same plane, unless you change it from RAA to VH rego in between steps. I might have to talk to CASA to be *very* sure about the rules about flyin RAAus planes in controlled airspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 I could probably teach someone to fly a 737 even though I've never flown one, too... I flew in a FoxBat today (3rd time) for my BFR after 18 months flying my RV and it was different enough to cause a few hiccups. I wouldn't want to try to learn from someone who themselves is learning the plane!Don't stress too much about the RAAus aspect. Learn under RAAus in a Foxbat, send the form off to CAsA to RPL your RPL (sorry, couldn't resist...), and away you go. The only limitation may be if your Foxbat is VH-... I was leaning Archerfield. Now leaning YCAB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravity Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Am curious as to why the Foxbat isn't just another plane, anyone who owns one care to elaborate why they are different? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Am curious as to why the Foxbat isn't just another plane, anyone who owns one care to elaborate why they are different? I expect that people will say that all planes are different to one another. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 FLAPERONS Not all aircraft have them. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRviator Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Am curious as to why the Foxbat isn't just another plane, anyone who owns one care to elaborate why they are different? It is just another plane, but like most every plane they all handle differently, that's all. As the instructor, you need to be aware of the aircraft's handling quirks to be able to catch a students mistake, which, if you've never flown it, means you're learning at the same time as the student and that doesn't leave you much time to be able to salvage something if the student fluffs it - clearly not an ideal scenario.The Foxbat also has this funny arrangement for mounting the elevator and flaperons that leaves you with the impression a series of bolts, washers and clevis pins have fallen off, when that's just the design - which if you didn't know about it could lead you to trying to ground a perfectly serviceable aircraft. And the flap handle is inboard between your heads, so you can't simply drop the flaps anytime you want, you need to be established in a comfortable flightpath, swap hands on the (centre) stick, drop the flaps, then swap hands again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I've always said a plane is a plane, but a Foxbat is a bit different. The Instructor should be familiar enough with it to cover all situations you might put it into.. While it stalls slow it's not that simple in gusts. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSCBD Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Its a simple aircraft to fly. Don't know why its a problem - seems the lack of experience of the instructor is the problem. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Doesn't like wind gusts. Fine in still air. Nev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSCBD Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Doesn't like wind gusts. Fine in still air. Nev. Nev, its a very simple high wing toy. Very easy to fly. You could say the same to other high wing RAA aircraft with gusts. Really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaba-who Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I might have to talk to CASA to be *very* sure about the rules about flyin RAAus planes in controlled airspace. No problem about flying RAAus registered aircraft in controlled airspace provided it is equipped with radio and transponder. Once that’s in place it’s just like any other aircraft. But there are some factors that are pilot and aircraft specific. Aircraft - If in flying in CTA you have to fly over built up areas then the C of A for that aircraft has to allow it. I have to admit I’m not up on the c of a provisions for RAAus but a VH ( in experimental class) may be certificated in its C of A to fly over built up areas or not. Usually if it is a normal design kit with no engine mods etc then it’s included. If it’s a weird engine or highly modified etc the c of a may restrict to not over built up areas. The pilot must have an RPL, PPL or higher ( to fly in CTA) AND as well have the RPC ( to fly the aircraft). A bone fide RPL, PPL etc student flying solo on an instructor sanctioned GA solo flight in CTA is covered as well. But not if you are on a RAAus Student flight. I have heard anecdotally that there are a small number (maybe only one) of RAAus flying schools who operate in CTA with apparently some form of dispensation. But those stories were always from people who could not actually verify how or why etc. so take that with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 It needs to sit more nose down when on the nosewheel so you can reduce lift when rolling after touching down.. Like a Savanna has (nose low when sitting on it's wheels.) Flies better when loaded. If you are landing slightly downhill it floats forever . Now don't tell me I'm approaching too fast because that's not the case. It's got lots of lift, and it's gust sensitive on approach.. Most pilots won't approach as slow as I'm prepared to do. I'm used to putting flying things in small spaces. I don't treat it as a toy. Any plane can embarrass you if you allow it up to. No really low wing loading plane likes turbulence on approach. The Aircraft generally flies fine.. I'm not the only pilot to mention what I have here but I'm not trying to make a large deal about it, either Most pilots will find out for themselves and allow for it if after an hour or two if they operate out of a short strip and that's the sort of operation it was made for. Nev 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 A Foxbat was written off in Bendigo last month, apparently a gust plus inexperienced student. Nothing much left to salvage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 No problem about flying RAAus registered aircraft in controlled airspace provided it is equipped with radio and transponder. Once that’s in place it’s just like any other aircraft.But there are some factors that are pilot and aircraft specific. Aircraft - If in flying in CTA you have to fly over built up areas then the C of A for that aircraft has to allow it. I have to admit I’m not up on the c of a provisions for RAAus but a VH ( in experimental class) may be certificated in its C of A to fly over built up areas or not. Usually if it is a normal design kit with no engine mods etc then it’s included. If it’s a weird engine or highly modified etc the c of a may restrict to not over built up areas. The pilot must have an RPL, PPL or higher ( to fly in CTA) AND as well have the RPC ( to fly the aircraft). A bone fide RPL, PPL etc student flying solo on an instructor sanctioned GA solo flight in CTA is covered as well. But not if you are on a RAAus Student flight. I have heard anecdotally that there are a small number (maybe only one) of RAAus flying schools who operate in CTA with apparently some form of dispensation. But those stories were always from people who could not actually verify how or why etc. so take that with a grain of salt. Thank you for telling me that. It would be possible to mentally mix up the requirements for plying in controlled space and over built up areas. I had heard that RAA aircraft needed a certified engine to fly in controlled airspace. It might be that a certified engine is needed to fly over built-up areas. There are two RAA flying schools At Archerfield (controlled, built up, Brisbane), Flightscope flys a Eurofox and Pathfinder fly slings. They are all RA registered aircraft, judging by the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 It needs to sit more nose down when on the nosewheel so you can reduce lift when rolling after touching down.. Like a Savanna has (nose low when sitting on it's wheels.) Flies better when loaded. If you are landing slightly downhill it floats forever . Now don't tell me I'm approaching too fast because that's not the case. It's got lots of lift, and it's gust sensitive on approach.. Most pilots won't approach as slow as I'm prepared to do. I'm used to putting flying things in small spaces. I don't treat it as a toy. Any plane can embarrass you if you allow it up to. No really low wing loading plane likes turbulence on approach. The Aircraft generally flies fine.. I'm not the only pilot to mention what I have here but I'm not trying to make a large deal about it, either Most pilots will find out for themselves and allow for it if after an hour or two if they operate out of a short strip and that's the sort of operation it was made for. Nev The instructor at Archerfield I was thinking of going with has 30 hrs with the Foxbat and has taught someone else to fly in it. I wonder if 30 hrs is enough. My guess is that 30 is much better than nothing, but 300 would be better and 3000 better still. Law of diminishing returns. I wonder what it would mean from a practicable point of view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 3,000 hour's Thats a lot of Student flights. $45,000 pay packet. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 To be quite honest an instructor with 30 hours on a Foxbat "should" have no problem with the aircraft. After all he must have some degree of experience to get an instructor rating. Time on aircraft will not however determine his ability to teach. Do not confuse ability to fly with ability to teach, they are not the same. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravity Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Its a simple aircraft to fly. Don't know why its a problem - seems the lack of experience of the instructor is the problem. . . That's pretty much what I would have thought, you would think by what some say you need to be a NASA rocket scientist to fly one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundsounds Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 What do pilots consider an acceptable minimum number of hours on an aircraft type before an instructor would be considered safe to deliver training? What do you base your estimate on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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