Soleair Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Well done NT5224 - couldn't have hoped for a better result given the circumstances. I've looked at potential outlanding sites in my area, and what look like good grass paddocks on closer inspection actually have loads of 'field stones', i.e. lumps of basalt rock of various sizes, most of which would be sufficient to flip me over. Not fun in a mid-wing. @nicephotog: do you actually fly? have you ever flown as a pilot in light planes? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Top work mate! As a born and raised territorian myself I have to say I’m glad you didn’t hit a termite mound Also does this mean you displaced the usual crocodile story on the front page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 NT5224 ...just a fantastic job....regardless of how the airframe is to be able to have you and your wife just walk away is a fantastic outcome. Most of that is because you did everything right and kept a cool head. Just fabulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love to fly Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Wow NT5224 Well Done!! You and your wife seriously did good! Thank you for sharing this with us. We can all always learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Most concerning, we were over extensive woodlands and hilly terrain, no roads or anywhere to set down. We just made it over the edge of the clearing and as I got over the last of the trees Firstly, great human result. What's your personal view on BRS parachutes after this incident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planedriver Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Just arrived back from a holiday in NZ a couple of hours ago and caught up with this story. All I can say at this stage is "Well Done" and so happy that you are in a position to relate the events from your point of view, all in one piece.That's the main thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Firstly, great human result.What's your personal view on BRS parachutes after this incident? My 2 bob's worth: I've got a BRS fitted, but would resist using it if the aircraft was still controllable and there was a good chance of reaching open ground. Once you pull that big red handle, you have no control at all...and you'd be coming down at c.1200 rpm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 would resist using it if the aircraft was still controllable and there was a good chance of reaching open ground. Well that's a little obvious I guess, but my question was directed to a person who "just made it" to open ground, as to their thinking towards BRS after such an incident. Note that I am unaware of NT's thinking towards BRS previously. I presume you have one because you are aware that these situations can and do occur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I'm also interested to hear NT's answer to your question, Bex; maybe I should have waited for his response. (...and good on him for telling us his story so soon after the event- so we are not dependent on speculation and poor quality media reporting.) I invested in a BRS after reading lots of crash reports. Some situations where I would be glad of having that big red handle: Structural failure, damaged/jammed controls, collision with another aircraft or bird, medical incapacitation... I guess engine failure over Yowie country is also a good reason to have a BRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NT5224 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Hiya Bex and Old Koreelah. Bex, you ask a great question which has given me pause for thought. Will I fit a BRS into my aircraft after this? On reflection, im not sure that I will. Its true that on this occasion I JUST made it over the last trees to the clearing (believe me, it was close!!!) but I did make it. If we had hit the trees and lived to tell of it my thoughts now might be different. I will certainly learn from this experience and will try to improve some aspects of my airmanship but im not sure about the BRS. Cheers Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 and you'd be coming down at c.1200 rpm! Well at least in NT's case he would squash the Crocs first. (...and good on him for telling us his story so soon after the event- so we are not dependent on speculation and poor quality media reporting.) Obviously you are not aware of how much damage truth and facts do to the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 ...on this occasion I JUST made it over the last trees to the clearing (believe me, it was close!!!)... If your plane had the extra 10kg weight of a BRS you might not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 People should make their OWN decision on this one. Discuss the cost, benefits and risks but no coercion, or pressure and hopefully NO thought of it being compulsory.. Extra weight does not alter glide angle, by the way.. You glide the same distance faster. If a headwind is involved you go further in that situation. Just making it over trees is a "think about" happening. Clearly it worked this time. When you pull the chute you have no control left as to what happens to you, and it can be a problem when ditching with a wind . Would it encourage people to fly over "unsuitable " (for landing) country? Maybe? I don't see that as a good reason to fit one. Just being "remote" has it's own risks if you make an outlanding,, forced or not. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 A BRS is a partial solution; conditions have to be right for it. Take a look st the substantial history of Cirrus arrivals, some worked out well, others killed the occupants, and of those, some would have survived a conventional forced landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 well most of the cases a BRS was used it saved lives...there are always exceptions but are in a small minority. I think I would much rather have the option than not Most BRS weigh around 13kg or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Yep much better to have it and have the extra option than be wishing you or your pax had the big red handle when things add up against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I should have gone on to say, that of the group who have them fitted some are of the type that don’t bother with BAK, practice forced landings, think ahead about forced landing sites etc. but just programme themselves to rely on the BRS only and subconscosciously pull activate it when there was a perfectly good forced landing site available. Some of them have finished up half on and half off a roof, or in the upper branches of a tree and it was the drop that killed them, so yes, putting one in is a valid choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 If I where to drive an ultralight with one of the more unreliable donks in it I'd be BRS'ing all the way, that's cheap insurance for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 well most of the cases a BRS was used it saved lives...there are always exceptions but are in a small minority. I think I would much rather have the option than notMost BRS weigh around 13kg or so I saved about half a kg by removing the metal case and mounting the components onto the aircraft structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I've never really bought the argument that goes 'once you pull the handle you've lost control over where you're going and you're just along for the ride'. Sure, on its face, it's a truism. But for it to mean anything you'd have to ask, "Yeah, but compared to what?" In an engine-out over dubious terrain scenario, you gamble that not pulling doesn't end up merely postponing that 'along for the ride' event to the moment the wheels hit that unseen wire or ditch or bog at landing speed. Who's steering now? True, opting for an under-canopy free-ride stretches out one's moments of scary impotence but ... hell, who wants 'em quick, anyway? It's impossible to be 'right' on this sort of issue. The particularities of every case/scenario defy any generalised position taking. We're left to make our own risk/cost/benefit analyses vis-a-vis installing or not (and then, come the day, to pulling or not). But since I do, myself, already have a BRS on board, there's a further consideration that bears on whether and when I use it. It's this: even a perfectly executed forced landing (such as the case at hand) into a good looking clearing/paddock is fairly likely to end with the aircraft flipped on its back. (Which, as we've seen here, doesn't need to be too serious.) However, let's say I'm cruising along one day and, Bang! ... the stillness hits the fan, one thing I have to ask myself: 'Do I really want to risk being strapped in, hanging upside-down in a 'perfect' field in a twisted airframe with a half-cocked ballistic rocket, inches from my head, aimed point-blank at mother earth - where, btw, that pool of aromatic fuel is now spreading liberally?' No, methinks not; especially, given further, that my flailing escape spasms may easily see that big red handle (what's it doing DOWN THERE on the floor?) yanked full clear of it's mooring. Let the fireworks begin. Such a nightmare scenario might convince some to go on having no part of the damn things. And it might persuade the rest of us who do open carry, to take on-board Cirrus' current advice on the matter: Pull Soon, Pull Often. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 What speed does a brs enabled aircraft hit the geound? How does that compare to a RAA 45kts stall speed arrival? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 6 to 7 m/s decent rate they quote thats at 600kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I guess it depends on a lot of factors including size of 'chute, AUW, Density Altitude and also, I'd say on whether there's a pendulum effect in play. Maybe all you can say is that very few of the hundreds of BRS saves have not been survivable as far as the arrival goes. Typically, though, enough damage is done to the airframes in the process that they're written off. I think it's expected that the undercarriage - assuming it's pointing in the right direction - will do a lot to soak up the shock. (My undercarriage would be well used to it ;-) It'd be good to have collapsing seats like choppers commonly have to absorb some of the vertical shock to the spine in hard arrivals. But front-on impact at maybe four or five times the velocity is surely going to hurt more. But then, no two accident sequences are ever alike. (Except when crash dummies are driving.) In any case, the aim of the game in a forced landing is to not hit anything. Whereas, under umbrella power, you know for sure that Mother Earth is going to whack you hard when you get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 6 to 7 m/s decent rate they quote thats at 600kg That's hitting the ground vertically at over 20km/hour, as against arriving at a shallow angle at about 80km/h.No wonder BRS are particular about how their product is installed; they insist the aircraft depends at a nose-down attitude so that the undercarriage absorbs most of the impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Mine is a Galaxysky parachute Mine is the column second last on the right hand side...the GRS 6 600SD speedy 115 sqM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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