Spill Resistant Refueling ??

[Lucky01]

Fair enough mate, It works really well at work - plus we have a fuel shutoff valve - that is a really simple but effective design. Once the tank is full the fuel comes down and closes the input valve.

 

 

[jetjr]

Id reckon good quality dry break connectors would cost more than the rest of the transfer system outlined here. Also many aircraft fuel lines and tank ports are tiny therefore slow to transfer 20L.

 

Im still a bit windy about using electric pumps and clip on leads etc etc around petrol. Also keep an eye on current drawn.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

This would appear to be a good, lightweight and cheap option at $25 -255LPH FUEL PUMP Set Fits Falcon BA BF 6CY XR6 Turbo XR8 V8 FPV GSS340

 

In-tank fuel pump normally for fuel injection - at that flow rate it would transfer a 20L jerrycan of fuel in just under five minutes. Just kit it out with a length of 8mm fuel hose with inline filter, a pair of wires with crocodile clips to connect to the battery with an inline rocker switch - and dangle it in the jerrycan of fuel.

 

The pump weighs only 360g so the whole setup would be under half a kilo ...

 

[ATTACH]61356[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]61357[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]61358[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]61359[/ATTACH]

 

Edit - or if five minutes is too slow for you, you can get a 450L/hr pump for $70 that would transfer the jerrycan of fuel in under 3 mins.

Thanks HITC - I have had a bit of a look at e submersible/in tank pumps but in the end elected to go for the Holly style vain pump shown several comments back. I could use this to transfer the fuel but am concerned about the drain on my small battery - 40 litres may require quite a few minutes of operation (note to self; must check out the actual run time on 20 litres).

 

My next effort will be the hand or foot operated air pump to pressurise the bladder.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Just checked out the cap on my collapsible jerrycans/bladders - will require a major modification to fit an air in and fuel out capability. Something along the lines of what BlueAdventure proposed

 

 

[dsam]

Just checked out the cap on my collapsible jerrycans/bladders - will require a major modification to fit an air in and fuel out capability. Something along the lines of what BlueAdventure proposed

Have you seen these Tanami pumps?

Tanami Models

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Is that a long way of saying - "I told you so"Tell me more about the 16 mm spigot/delivery hose - the largest my local hydraulic shop had was 1/2 in

Last week I got the pump attachment valve bit I'll use. It's the bent valve found in most aircraft tubes, had an old one and cut the valve out, it will be trimed down and brazed into the copper disc along with the 16mm / 5/8" od tube. When done I will get the hose to suit and test it out. Cheers

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Have you seen these Tanami pumps?Tanami Models

Hi DSAM - yep! familiar with the Tanami. Concept may work in my application (see above) but bought Tanami wont fit my bladders.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Last week I got the pump attachment valve bit I'll use. It's the bent valve found in most aircraft tubes, had an old one and cut the valve out, it will be trimed down and brazed into the copper disc along with the 16mm / 5/8" od tube. When done I will get the hose to suit and test it out. Cheers

Keep me posted BlueA - my cap does not feature the yellow plastic removable disc (see above) but still may do something along the lines of what you are proposing - will require considerable cap engineering and at least two brass or ss disks (to act as clamps)..

 

 

[poteroo]

Have you seen these Tanami pumps?

I've been using a 'red' Tanami pump for over 4 years, and it works really well. $80 is good value. I have fitted a 3m x 12mm hose to it. This needs replacing from time to time as the P-ULP hardens it up.

 

While refuelling my high-wing outside the hangar, I usually use the workshop compressor - 'careful', I hear everyone saying! The resettable pressure relief on the Tanami allows you to employ the big compressor - just have to be careful to keep it below 10 psi. Bulging side panels should remind you! With the big compressor, I empty a 20L jerry in 85-90 seconds.

 

While away from base, I use a small handpump which is quite capable of holding 10 psi in the lines and my average time to empty is around 100-110 seconds. (puff, puff!).

 

happy days,

 

 

[skippydiesel]

I've been using a 'red' Tanami pump for over 4 years, and it works really well. $80 is good value. I have fitted a 3m x 12mm hose to it. This needs replacing from time to time as the P-ULP hardens it up.While refuelling my high-wing outside the hangar, I usually use the workshop compressor - 'careful', I hear everyone saying! The resettable pressure relief on the Tanami allows you to employ the big compressor - just have to be careful to keep it below 10 psi. Bulging side panels should remind you! With the big compressor, I empty a 20L jerry in 85-90 seconds.

 

While away from base, I use a small handpump which is quite capable of holding 10 psi in the lines and my average time to empty is around 100-110 seconds. (puff, puff!).

 

happy days,

Hi Poteroo,

Yep ! the Tanami is a good product - as yet there is no Tanami for a collapse jerrycan/bladder (unless you know otherwise). I have plastic jerrycans at "home" for fulling my aircraft but. When away I carry the collapsible bladders as they are relatively light and more importantly, as space is at a premium in my Zephyr, fold down to a very small package.

 

It is likely that both BlueA and I will be making our own version of the Tanami to suit our applications. This is not as easy as it sounds, as considerable finesse must be brought to the problem of fitting a fuel out port and an air in port to a cap with very little usable space while remaining both fuel and airtight.

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Keep me posted BlueA - my cap does not feature the yellow plastic removable disc (see above) but still may do something along the lines of what you are proposing - will require considerable cap engineering and at least two brass or ss disks (to act as clamps)..

Hi Skippy

Update. Tonight I finished fabing up the bits to make the cap insert piece (Length of 5/8" copper pipe, cut off bent valve from an old aircraft tube and the brass disc). Just need to clean up and braze or silver solder it the next few days. Then get some hose and give it a try.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Looking good BlueA - I await your test results with great interest.

 

 

[apm]

Remember to try to allow for grounding fuel container to plane, pumping fuel and air creates static which should be dissipated, so a cable with clips both ends will ground container to plane. If the conductive tube inside the the container is not submerged in the fuel, solder a wire to run inside the flex tube reaching down to bottom of container.

 

A spark from static electricity should not be under-estimated, but it is easy to prevent if everything is properly grounded.

 

 

[hihosland]

I used a foot operated lilo pump to pressurise a jerry can and it worked exceedingly well.

 

That is until I thought about it a bit more

 

Thoughts being

 

1 liquid fuel is not explosive

 

2 fuel-vapour is not explosive

 

3 fuel-vapour/air mixture is explosive

 

4 pressurised fuel-vapour/air mixture is a potential flame thrower.

 

With those thoughts in mind I went back to decanting liquid fuel from jerry can into Mr Funnel into aircraft.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

I used a foot operated lilo pump to pressurise a jerry can and it worked exceedingly well.That is until I thought about it a bit more

Thoughts being

 

1 liquid fuel is not explosive

 

2 fuel-vapour is not explosive

 

3 fuel-vapour/air mixture is explosive

 

4 pressurised fuel-vapour/air mixture is a potential flame thrower.

 

With those thoughts in mind I went back to decanting liquid fuel from jerry can into Mr Funnel into aircraft.

Hi HIH - All true But the air fuel ratio must be appropriate for ignition to take place - too rich (your likely condition until can empty) no ignition.

 

 

[hihosland]

True Skippy,

 

But my concern is/was that every time that this system is used at some point the fuel/air mixture would be at a potentially explosive ratio.

 

Whereas with other systems the gas mixture in both the receiving and the delivering containers would be too rich at all times.

 

cheers

 

 

[apm]

Does not matter the method of refueling, there is always an area around the refueling point that is at the correct AFR for combustion, the trick to make it safe to not have possibility for static discharge at that point.

 

Pouring fuel from a plastic jerrycan into a wing is high risk, especially just after flight or transport of fuel as that is when static is greatest, and its not really possible to effectively ground the container as you are holding it to pour.

 

You’ve always got your fire extinguisher handy & ready to go so it wont be a disaster if you are unlucky enough to ignite, just dont panic, carefully place the container down & cover openings in wing & jerry, that fuel will self extiguish from lack of oxygen, just have to put out the fire from spilt fuel with the extinguisher.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Just did a rough check on the delivery performance of my foux Holly - came out at 5 L/min or 20 litres in 4 mins or 300 L/hr - not bad for a "knock off".

 

Now I will have to try & determine the current draw/drain . This figure will determine if I can get away with powering the faux Holly from my aircraft battery (& still start the Rotax after pumping 20-40 litres)

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Forgot to mention - removed non return valve, in line filter and increased hose/spigot size (ID).

 

Non return valve of little value as pump "self primes".

 

Similar storey for in line filter - filtering achieved by using my home made Mr Funnel that sits securely (unlike Mr Funnel) in the filler port.

 

Bigger hose/spigots allows pump to deliver max flow

 

 

[antonts]

I use battery-powered (2 size D) pump to fill fire pumps, generators and my van with diesel fuel. About 3 minutes to pump 20l, fits in standard jerry can, rated for petrol/diesel/kerosene, $50 on ebay - search there "battery powered fuel transfer siphon pump", jrocproducts.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Just did a rough check on the delivery performance of my foux Holly - came out at 5 L/min or 20 litres in 4 mins or 300 L/hr - not bad for a "knock off".Now I will have to try & determine the current draw/drain . This figure will determine if I can get away with powering the faux Holly from my aircraft battery (& still start the Rotax after pumping 20-40 litres)

Skippy:

Are those LPM figures for pumping to the same height as the fuel container or above it or below it. If above the fuel container, how much higher?

 

I like the idea of this pump and am wondering if it is suitable to refuel a high wing from a container on the ground.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Tried to put an aution house item, onto this site but it disappeared, possible conflict,

 

It was a self contained 12 volt system with max capacity of 500ltrs, (back of ute)

 

Pickles archerfield has a 200ltrs lot 435. To check it out.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Skippy:Are those LPM figures for pumping to the same height as the fuel container or above it or below it. If above the fuel container, how much higher?

I like the idea of this pump and am wondering if it is suitable to refuel a high wing from a container on the ground.

My rough estimated fuel flow is from a 20 l "jerry" on the ground to my main tank fuel in point about 1.2 m. I have an auxiliary tank that has the in point at about 1.6 m - fuel flow much the same. I timed the delivery from switch on to switch off for 20 L using a freshly charged car battery.

 

The "Holly" is a positive displacement vane pump, so exhibits good self prime and lift characteristics but you cant just stop the flow with a tap (like you can with a centrifugal) you must turn of the energy (electricity) that drives the pump.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

I use battery-powered (2 size D) pump to fill fire pumps, generators and my van with diesel fuel. About 3 minutes to pump 20l, fits in standard jerry can, rated for petrol/diesel/kerosene, $50 on ebay - search there "battery powered fuel transfer siphon pump", jrocproducts.

Hi Antonts - Please correct me if I am wrong - I believe you are referring to a "powered " siphon. This wont pump fuel from the ground to a fill point significantly above the supply container (jerrycan). These gadgets are a questionable improvement on a simple tube in the hand of someone who knows how to use a siphon.

 

 

[antonts]

no, it pumps upwards well. From ground to full length of hose (about 1m) at least, as I said I use them to fill fire pumps in our building - usual diesel with tank on top. This is small centrifugal pump sitting in the very bottom of can, all good, not a high pressure system but strong enough.