Small Flying Schools

[Yenn]

I think Camel has made a point here. He seems to be unaware of any attempt by RAAus to close him down. The only talk of closing schools down that I have heard was started by someone on this forum. Is there really a push by RAAus to close schools? Can you come up with evidence, or are we getting innuendo only?

 

 

[facthunter]

You would have to do it for the passion as it's unlikely to be for the money. I can't imagine a more precarious business than hiring out ultra lights. A thinking person just would not do it. The pilot should respect the planes structure and handle the engine(s) carefully. When it's not your own and no ones watching (or they think no one is,) people do really stupid things at times in aeroplanes.. Nev

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

I hope that this is just an unsubstantiated rumor, it’s my goal to do an RAAus instructor rating in a few years time so that I can work part time at a SMALL SCHOOL instructing after I retire from the airlines, the industry has been very good to me & its my turn to give something back.

 

BTW I totally admire Camels previous post, respect sir.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

$10 is not enough for me to squeal on my informants...KP

Keith, if Keith is your real name and anyone from CASA/RA-Aus reads the site and knows who their colleagues' friends are, then you might have already squealed. Maybe it would have been better to provide the evidence but not provide your name?

 

 

[facthunter]

Keith, your reply reminds me of a Churchillian comment... Madame, we now know what your profession is, we just haven't agreed on a price. Nev

 

 

[NotSoSuperSonic]

Turbo’s Safety Management System is why - every Flying School now has to have one. So whats proposed is a pyramid system where an over arching Flight Training organisation big enough to have the resources to afford the SMS, and Office manager (to keep up with all the BS paperwork and compliance issues) who sees to it that satelite schools preach to the ever increasing standards being imposed by those above. I’ts a system where flying schools do the work for RAA head office.There are changes similar to this going on in the GA training regime as we speak, I know of two who have decided not to continue to operate because of it. We are being screwed in every direction and are expected to like it.

"One of the first wins Katie had was an agreement by the regulator that RAAus could develop an organisation wide SMS so that each of our schools did not have to go out and build their own. This was a massive success for RAAus. Straight away the new role was paying dividends. Many of our schools are run by a single person, or are relatively small operations. Having RAAus invest and develop an SMS on their behalf was a massive win. It also meant that the planned six month job, grew to be a whole lot bigger. Katie’s contract was extended and the real work of building an SMS started. Three and a half years on and Katie has all but put the finishing touches on the SMS".

 

This was quoted from an article written by the RAAus CEO on page 14 of the August 2017 Sport Pilot magazine, thanking Katie for her work at RAAus. Did the SMS plan fall through, or was it always intended for each school to still need its own specific SMS? Cheers

 

 

[Blueadventures]

"One of the first wins Katie had was an agreement by the regulator that RAAus could develop an organisation wide SMS so that each of our schools did not have to go out and build their own. This was a massive success for RAAus. Straight away the new role was paying dividends. Many of our schools are run by a single person, or are relatively small operations. Having RAAus invest and develop an SMS on their behalf was a massive win. It also meant that the planned six month job, grew to be a whole lot bigger. Katie’s contract was extended and the real work of building an SMS started. Three and a half years on and Katie has all but put the finishing touches on the SMS". This was quoted from an article written by the RAAus CEO on page 14 of the August 2017 Sport Pilot magazine, thanking Katie for her work at RAAus. Did the SMS plan fall through, or was it always intended for each school to still need its own specific SMS? Cheers

Agree. At the Rockhampton PDP at end of June RAA said they had an SMS written that was being made available to all flying schools so they could edit it for their operation thereby meeting their requirement of an SMS with minimum effort. I took that as a great piece of work that would assist greatly flying schools in a good way. Cheers

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Perhaps, after 4+ years they have found that the SMS isn't actually working? If people are just copying and pasting on a computer to complete paperwork like they are doing a BAS, this could create an issue.

 

 

[NotSoSuperSonic]

Agree. At the Rockhampton PDP at end of June RAA said they had an SMS written that was being made available to all flying schools so they could edit it for their operation thereby meeting their requirement of an SMS with minimum effort. I took that as a great piece of work that would assist greatly flying schools in a good way. Cheers

We'll have to wait and see if it's legit, or another bit of spin. It might only be for select flying schools.

 

 

[NotSoSuperSonic]

Perhaps, after 4+ years they have found that the SMS isn't actually working? If people are just copying and pasting on a computer to complete paperwork like they are doing a BAS, this could create an issue.

Blasphemer!!!

 

 

[Thruster88]

Agree. At the Rockhampton PDP at end of June RAA said they had an SMS written that was being made available to all flying schools so they could edit it for their operation thereby meeting their requirement of an SMS with minimum effort. I took that as a great piece of work that would assist greatly flying schools in a good way. Cheers

I believe casa did somthing similar for ga schools.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Closing schools !

 

What will happen to Camden And the Oaks when that new airport opens, the are both under its boundary ?.

 

spaesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

"Watch out Spacesailor they will be onto you..

 

With:------(Where is your evidence?)????????????

 

KP "

 

Evidence ?

 

The Fact they took payment, issued a interim registration number, then said NOT in that category 10-xxxx.

 

Or the Test question, "What causes Icing" ,answer: "Moisture in the air"

 

That makes Darwin prone to icing and Mcmurdo valley in the antarctic, quite safe from the dreaded icing problem.

 

Other's have stated to go 19.xxx or VH, but I did NOT need a build log or preclosure inspection, or photographic build evidence for the car 95-10,

 

that was the go at the time, of which I had abundance.

 

So who to get a flight certificate with, without going back to the RAA Bureaucrats.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[planesmaker]

SS I would very much expect icing in Darwin when humid.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I hear Darwin can & doe's get to 90% moisture.

 

Stand still & still sweat, LoL

 

Would your fuel (petrol) in your RAA aircraft Not freeze at 40 degrees below zero. when waiting the antarctic ATC takeoff order.

 

Just looked at a Canadian HummelBird , that has it's cylinders shrouded, because of their low temperatures.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

News: The ongoing danger of carburettor icing

[facthunter]

The wings of your comfortable jetliner are in air at minus 60 C, frequently. The speed through the air warms them about 32 degrees so the fuel is easily minus 28 degrees if it wasn't heated. (usually just before the fuel filters). Nev

 

 

[planesmaker]

Carby icing has to do with moisture freezing (that's why it's called icing) inside Carby throat restricting air and fuel normal supply.

 

 

[facthunter]

I know I know. Latent heat of vaporisation and venturi effect and high moisture (humidity) in the air.. Tropical maritime air holds the most, but some one was talking about the Arctic/Antarctic but at the tropopause it's the same temp. I know U/L's don't GO there but air travel is so cheap everyone flys everywhere, these days and the fuel filters would block up with frozen moisture in the fuel, if it's not heated. Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

Back to the subject of 'small flying schools' in the RAAus system.

 

As far as I know, there is no intent to reduce school numbers. This will rise and fall with the economy - right now it's probably evident as a decline in 'active' flying schools, and a decline in hours flown at those still 'current'. It's most likely been raised due to a throwaway comment from Canberra about the difficulties, and cost, of annually auditing each school. Desktop audits are really of dubious value. It would really benefit most CFIs to have an RAAus Ops manager visit at least every 2 years, with the intermediate year done regionally.

 

Re the SMS situation.  yes, CASA wanted each school to have an SMS, and yes, RAAus organised a pro forma template for each school to produce its' own.  I changed/added quite a bit of ours, and submitted it last July. Nothing heard to date, so I assume it has been accepted. When I see what has been required in our local Part 141 GA school, we are getting off lightly! Seems to always happen when CASA promise a 'simplification'.  Reminds me of one definition of bureaucracy - a committee designing a horse but finishing with a camel!!

 

happy days,

 

 

[Jim McDowall]

people are just copying and pasting on a computer to complete paperwork

Just like in the building industry where most people just tick the safety paperwork off as "done". It is very rarely read much less interrogated with any vigor.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Re the SMS situation.  yes, CASA wanted each school to have an SMS, and yes, RAAus organised a pro forma template for each school to produce its' own.  I changed/added quite a bit of ours, and submitted it last July. Nothing heard to date, so I assume it has been accepted. When I see what has been required in our local Part 141 GA school, we are getting off lightly! Seems to always happen when CASA promise a 'simplification'.  Reminds me of one definition of bureaucracy - a committee designing a horse but finishing with a camel!!

Remember an SMS is something you write to specify how you are going to operate safely; it also provides the guidelines for your students, and rentals to operate by.

 

When an accident occurs and someone decides to sue the student or renting pilot for negligence he/she can have some, up to full protection if complying with the SMS.

 

If the SMS is robust and in line with benchmarks, regulations and industry safest practice, it can also  provide good protection for you.

 

If it's a $2 SMS then that's all the protection you can rely on for your defence.

 

I would not expect CASA to do anything other than acknowledge receipt of your SMS. If they were to "approve" it they open themselves up to being a co-defendant. This way you are self-administering to the way you want things done at your school. 

 

 

 

[M61A1]

If the SMS is robust and in line with benchmarks, regulations and industry safest practice, it can also  provide good protection for you.

If the SMS is as above, it might be the reason small schools go broke. I would assume people like yourself consider that to be a good thing,as you seem to think that it weeds the bad ones. The terms of compliance will continue to grow, until no-one can afford to fly legally, only then will the skies be truly safe.

 

 

[turboplanner]

If the SMS is as above, it might be the reason small schools go broke. I would assume people like yourself consider that to be a good thing,as you seem to think that it weeds the bad ones. The terms of compliance will continue to grow, until no-one can afford to fly legally, only then will the skies be truly safe.

Rubbish; safe schools virtually only need to write a document that mirrors their successful management policy. Not exactly rocket science.

 

 

[M61A1]

Yet that isn't what happens. Safety and quality management people are continually making up new processes and rules, that ensures employment. Like any parasite, left for long enough, they will kill the host that feeds them.