777 Co-Pilot being hammered in the UK press. . .

[Phil Perry]

In the us but from Australia so know who Vanstone isYour comment reminds me of the old joke, what do you do if a bird sh1ts on your windscreen? You don't take her on a second date....

Don't see the correlation to which you refer NB,. . . . .

 

Have you had the right side of your brain hemisphere tested recently, because. . . . it said in the Daily Express Newspaper ( so it MUST be true. . . ) today that it was now an established fact [ Research conducted in the USA ] that people who have a large amount of electrical activity in the right hemisphere are natural pessimists, whereas those with most of the activity on the left side . . . .

 

However, I DO remember the joke,. . .but in London it was about two Derroes sitting on a bench in a London park discussing the same ornotholigcal versus girlfriend excretion subject . . . .

 

For heaven's sake man. . . . lighten the mood. . . otherwise you'll end up being hanged by the neck until you cheer up.

 

Kind regards,

 

Phil

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Australian pilots will always be in demand,why?

 

because we can fly

You're only popular ( in the UK ) because you sound like Paul Hogan. . . . . ( due apologies to LADY Australian pilots. . .)

 

Do any of you ne'er do wells remember the old Aussie TV series "The Flying Doctor" where the star aeroplane was the 3 engined DeHaviland Drover. . . ( three inverted Gypsy Major [tiger moth] engines in close formation ) and Charlie White was the pilot. . . . That was the show that got me into aviation in the first place ( damn you Charlie,. . .you cost me a bloody fortune over the years. . . ) I wonder if there are any "Drovers" left on the planet now. . . be a damn shame if there weren't.

 

 

[nong]

There is still a handful of Drovers around.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

There is still a handful of Drovers around.

That's GREAT Nong. . . .

 

WHERE ? ? ? ?

 

I WANT PICS ! ! ! ! !

 

Phil

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Could be one at Broken Hill in October.

 

Big celebration flyin.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Could be one at Broken Hill in October.Big celebration flyin.

Can you get some pictures phil,. . . or do I have to book a 777 out of LAX and come myself ? ? ? ?

 

 

[M61A1]

In order of importance, flying standards trumps racism. Where pilots can't perform because of culture, societal structure or personal deficiencies, it is relevent....particularly if you or your loved ones travel on RPT.Low-down on Korean pilots struck me as being a well detailed account written by an aviator who had genuine concerns.

I have seen examples of cultural issues in maintenance. In some cultures, it is acceptable to cover up mistakes, ignore procedures, buy qualifications and at times outright lie to save face. None of these attributes make for good maintainers and safe aircraft or pilots for that matter. Racism is unacceptable, however safety issues cannot be ignored just because someone may decide it's racist.eg; I recently read in an aircraft safety article that Africa is the only place where aircraft accidents cause by maintenance issues equal those caused by pilots, and not because their pilots are better. I am aware of one company having to scrap a 747 after maintenance (outsourced) because it was not ecomical to repair the damage done by unskilled labour.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Human error in some way shape or form is involved in any accident, we make them we break them, we maintain them we fail to maintain them, we fly them we crash them.

 

Without us they don't exist.

 

Alf

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Hey Nobody why is the NTSB releasing information in small bursts (including parts of interviews with the pilots) well before they have concluded their investigation? Is this normal practise?

 

Also I read the SFO ILS system wasn't working at the time, I wonder if is it possible some of the big metal pilots may become a bit dependant upon this system rather than looking outside a bit? (Not speculating about this accident, just a question for those here that use ILS)

 

 

[facthunter]

Plenty of students approach the training with the attitude, "I have paid my money . Where is my ticket?" SOME don't make the standard but pressure is applied to pass them, or you have something like an international incident. Those who just choose an airline, on price alone amaze me. Airlines are not all equal, Nor would brain surgeons be either. Watch out for airlines run by accountants.. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

GG, an approach without VASIS or Glideslope indication is not considered normal for regular Jet services. Nev.

 

 

[planedriver]

Those who just choose an airline, on price alone amaze me. Airlines are not all equal, Nor would brain surgeons be either. Watch out for airlines run by accountants.. Nev

Having flown with Garuda to London a decade or so ago, and experienced three aborted take-offs at Abu Dhabi cured me, especially after chatting with a ground engineer who advised me that they'd had a serious problem even before we'd landed at Kuala Lumpur some hours earlier.

 

I got off-loaded onto an Air Lanka flight with a very tired looking 747 which took me to Amsterdam via Paris then another airline across The Channel.

 

Luggage arrived 4days later. I should have known in those days that not all airlines are equal:yikes:

 

Quote of the day:

 

If you need brain surgery, don't trust the local butcher. They both cut meat, but one normally has a better outcome.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Its called subtle racism, you don't realise what your saying because you've held that belief for so long it just seems natural. You probably don't even think of yourself as being racist, more of a realist.

With the Korean culture the statements are correct though, it is indisputably the worst culture in the world for undisputed chain of command that can not be questioned.

 

It is not prevelant throughout Asia however and Chinese pilots would certainly argue and take action over superior officers. My problem with Chinese is tunnel vision which probably suggests they are excellent pilots for procedure, including emergency, but there will be issues when they run out of procedure to follow and have to make lateral decisions for themselves.

 

Racism is unacceptable, .

No it's not, it's a nessessary element to maintain one's culture (and let me assure you I am on the wrong end of the stick where I live).

 

There's 33 countries here that are banned from obtaining visas, all one skin colour that are well known for being apethetic, high in criminal activity, drugs, prostitution, etc. while you were reading that did it come to mind which colour that is .... please tell me you didn't just racially stereotype.

 

Australian pilots will always be in demand,why? because we can fly

I was at the National University for Flight here again yesterday and in sight are 5 x 172's (one taking off, one in circuit, one landing and a couple taxi'ing) at any one time from 6am to 12pm all day everyday training new pilots. There will be less and less demand for Western pilots on a continuing basis for Eastern airlines.

 

The Australian pilot with me couldn't believe the soup they were flying in and mentioned there was not a chance in the world anyone would be allowed to fly in it in Oz (visibilty was about 500 meters).

 

 

[Marty_d]

This is just brilliant. Phil, you should like this - a magnificent blunder by the press!!

 

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/asiana-may-sue-tv-station-and-ntsb-over-fake-pilot-names-prank/story-e6frfq80-1226679495609

 

For those who don't want to read the whole thing... a San Francisco TV anchor read out the names of the 777 flight crew...

 

"Captain Sum Ting Wong, Wi Tu Lo, Ho Lee Fuk and Bang Dong Ow."

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

An aside... just looked at another article from the link above:

 

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/graffiti-artists-target-25m-private-jet/story-e6frfq80-1226679566871

 

Ok, it's a 2.5 million dollar jet. You're rich enough to own one, you can afford to get it cleaned. BUT...

 

"The damage will cost an estimated $110,000 to repair"?!?!?

 

They tagged it with paint, they didn't cut a wing off with a chainsaw!!

 

That's it, I'm leaving work and starting an aircraft painting business. Bring me your Foxbats, your Sapphires, your Sonex's and your Zeniths. Flat rate of $25,000 for removing graffiti!

 

 

[jcamp]

Asiana Pix - from 98

 

http://www.aviationpics.de/ramp/alaska/alaska.htm

 

Commentry is a bit cynical and some may call it racist

 

Just into Anchorage and looking at all the Korean debris on the airfield.

 

What a beautiful job the Asiana boy did in his 747-400. Asiana is

 

KAL's "opposition" company, also run by the

 

military cronies. Pranged in Anchorage trying to do a "U" turn in a

 

parking bay... in a 747-400???? Poor Aeroflot was in the way though,

 

minding his business, parked at the gate with passengers on board. Asiana

 

thumped his # 1 engine against Aeroflot's wing and tore open the

 

engine cowling and fuel lines on the 747, pissing fuel all over the apron.

 

With standard Korean procedure, that calls for more power so you can get

 

out of the way and hope nobody saw! This he did, but it was icy as hell

 

on the ramp. The skid started and took out 2 Evergreen staff vehicles

 

sending the occupants fleeing for cover. THE CIRCUS HAD BEGUN! Still more

 

power and he put his left wing (last 15-20 feet) into the

 

vertical stab of the IL62 and cut into the tail about 15 feet. When he

 

reached the main spar of the vertical stab... the 747 stopped... you

 

guessed it..... MORE POWER!!! I think he thought there was still time to run

 

for it but he didn't seem to

 

be going anywhere.......SO..........MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!! In trying to

 

escape the grips of the Russian aircraft, he managed to reach take-off

 

thrust, and in so doing, put a bunch of containers behind the aircraft

 

through the terminal building and trashed it. Heard NCA got it in the

 

clamps, the Japanese must be pleased about that! Still no shutdown or

 

evacuation (fuel still pissing everywhere over the apron from the 747 #1

 

engine) The Yank ground mechanics finally managed to run over and told them to

 

shut

 

the aircraft down but the crew were busy writing a report for management to

 

apportion the blame. After the entertainment ended, spoke to our crew driver

 

and she said the

 

two (ground) vehicles he hit during his exhibition were badly trashed. The

 

Asiana aircraft is looking quite sad. Took all day yesterday to separate

 

the two aircraft and in desperation, the mechanics finally had to cut

 

about 20 feet of the Asiana left wing off to get the aircraft apart. Talk

 

about "dog lock"! The engine is off and the cowlings are all torn open.

 

The opposition (Aeroflot) was taking cover in the hangar...Good idea! Well,

 

not to be outdone, KAL landed a 747 freighter the very next day on

 

the runway lights on 6R!!! Lights, tyres, stuff everywhere.... you know

 

the rest. Ah yes, another boring day in aviation!

 

Y'awl be careful out there!!!!

 

 

[M61A1]

An aside... just looked at another article from the link above:http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/graffiti-artists-target-25m-private-jet/story-e6frfq80-1226679566871

 

Ok, it's a 2.5 million dollar jet. You're rich enough to own one, you can afford to get it cleaned. BUT...

 

"The damage will cost an estimated $110,000 to repair"?!?!?

 

They tagged it with paint, they didn't cut a wing off with a chainsaw!!

 

That's it, I'm leaving work and starting an aircraft painting business. Bring me your Foxbats, your Sapphires, your Sonex's and your Zeniths. Flat rate of $25,000 for removing graffiti!

That's what happens when you have certified aircraft and have to use certified processes to carry out any maintenance.

[fly_tornado]

so here is the news you have been waiting for. As you all suspected the 777 auto throttle @ fault.

 

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-asiana-passengers-sue-boeing-in-asiana-crash-20130716,0,7439648.story

 

 

[facthunter]

Still too early to know the whole story. You don't use the fact that some legal eagles have initiated actions to decide for you. NTSB will do their usual good job and ALL the recorders and witnesses are there. The 777 is generally regarded as a good aircraft.. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

let the lawyers settle this one. Boeing has too many friends in the NTSB to get too much scrutiny.

 

 

[dazza 38]

so here is the news you have been waiting for. As you all suspected the 777 auto throttle @ fault.http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-asiana-passengers-sue-boeing-in-asiana-crash-20130716,0,7439648.story

Even if the Auto- Throttles failed, so what. None of the crew were keeping a eye on the AIRSPEED, otherwise they wouldn't have got down to 103 knots. Even though the 777 has Auto-throttles I am pretty sure they are not a set and forget. The aircrew still have to monitor the aircrafts systems and fly the aeroplane.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

They adjusted the auto throttles to increase speed

 

 

[facthunter]

Without knowing the details you are speculating. If the Autothrottle wasn't engaged properly or referencing the proper speed, it ( the PLANES actual speed ) still has to be monitored and the throttles are normally easily disconnected and used manually. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I'm just going off what info the NTSB have released

 

 

[alf jessup]

Even if the Auto- Throttles failed, so what. None of the crew were keeping a eye on the AIRSPEED, otherwise they wouldn't have got down to 103 knots. Even though the 777 has Auto-throttles I am pretty sure they are not a set and forget. The aircrew still have to monitor the aircrafts systems and fly the aeroplane.

They are set and forget Dazza if they don't actually know how to manually fly the plane, shame the decreasing airspeed and the runway moving up the windscreen wasn't enough to alert them they we heading for trouble.

 

Maybe in their training they weren't shown that either.

 

Pilots names might have been

 

Dung no How, To fli dis, Ting wit out, Art oh mation (he was chief steward)

 

Alf