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studying aviation - associate dagree/bachelor of applied science


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It's NOT the best job in the world either. Longer legs are the order of the day. The management hate your guts for not Paying them for the seat you occupy .Pilot's(the ONLY people who understand what's involved in flying a plane on schedule in all weather takes) don't manage airlines anymore. Accountants do. You don't get "mad about flying" kids coming up into the cockpit any more. or a nervous attendant for a secret Fag..You're locked up there like a dog in a box. You only get one life. If it's not you up the front, but someone else no one will be any the wiser or care..You are just a number. Even your Mums friends will think you only press buttons.. Nev

I wanted to be a commercial pilot when I was young, but ended up with a career in engineering instead. It was only in later years that I was able take up flying. I really enjoyed the challenge of getting my PPL, was able to build my own plane and can now fly when and where I want. However, while training and in the time since I've also had the opportunity to get to know and talk to professional pilots and realised what a long road the young instructors I knew have in front of them to get into an airliner's left seat, and what they have to endure both financially and in terms of life-style to get there. I don't envy them but also know enough now to appreciate the difference in skill levels between a professional pilot and an amateur like myself. While being an airline pilot no longer appeals to me, I'd love to be a Flying Doctor pilot. Unfortunately, I think I've left my run a few decades too late.

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An airline job has never been my dream job, I went Ag flying because I like to fly. I have friends who went airlines, only 2 I know are still with their original wives. Airline flying will not be back to anything

like it was for years, if ever. The reality of airline flying is brutal, constant checks, flying mostly at night (international) and absolutely no respect from those running the airlines. Now nobody has much of an idea when airline jobs will start, airlines will be asking pilots to halve their wages to get a job back.

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When in high school, we wrote an essay about our desired career and I did it on being an airline pilot. A few days later, this other teacher took me in for a talking to... " you've got brains boy," he said " you could have a profession instead of a trade ".

This was in the 50's when airline pilots were like greek gods to me. And they earned more than schoolteachers, I thought but didn't say.

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When in high school a teacher asked the students what they would like to be when they left school. I said I was keen on electronics or biology. The teacher laughed, the class laughed. God bless the 70s.

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When I was at school in the early 70's the vocational guidance person asked what I wanted to do, I said pilot. He looked over his glasses at me then at my school record and said "You would be better being a laborer, digging ditches is for you". Left school at 16 and went on to do 5 years panel beating but the urge to fly became too much. Went through from first lesson to commercial and AG rating in 18 months. I might not be too bright but the folks in vocational guidance at the time didn't take into account on how much effort you will put in if it's something you want more than anything.

If you really want something you will put in the effort.

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Till the late 60's pilots didn't get good money. I didn't better what I would have gotten staying as a teacher until the North American BID system came in and my Plumber son reckoned he wouldn't swap job s even later as I rarely got new years eve or Christmas at home. and his money was better than mine. I did get to take him in the cockpit of a DC9 to Launceston and back with me in the early 80's when he was in his teens. That was something, but you can't do anything like that now.. Nev

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A number of blokes I knew in the 70s that were mad keen on becoming a commercial pilot borrowed heavily to get their commercial & often flew for free just to build hours. Others became instructors to also boost their hours. When they finally got commercial jobs it was more often flying freight & newspapers at night in twins at pay levels not much more than the dole. The odd one got lucky. One of the instructors at the aero club was applying for numerous jobs all over the world & one day got accepted by Cathay. Within about 18 months he was captaining A330s. Another got to be the chief pilot for the Sultan of Brunei. The guy that went to Cathay became a conceited prick but the guy who flew the Sultan remained a humble and down to earth bloke who had some amazing stories to tell every time he came home.

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Posted (edited)

Late 80’s I was earning about $9000 PA working in GA so some of those guidance councillors were right, it took 6 years from paying $12,000 for a commercial licence until I made more than 20k a year. Anyone planning on being a pilot for the money is barking up the wrong tree. Out of 26 that started at TAFE doing aviation studies in the late 80’s, 4 of us are still flying, 3 for airlines, that is a story more of dedication and perseverance than a quest for income. It certainly doesn’t provide for families at the moment during stand down, I’d rather be a tradie today, we needed an electrician recently and the fixed price job worked out at over $300 an hour for the time it took with no materials supplied by him and that was the cheapest quote.

Edited by ao767brad
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I have spent the last 15 years earning realtively good money ding carp I hate.. I look back now and owuld have preferred earning enough to get by and doing stuff I love (ironically, when I lfeeted with the idea of being a professional pilot, night freight was where I wanted to go). As a very smart young woman said to me.. how often, on your death bed do you look back and think how great your working life was (compared to family and friends).. The reality is, if you can look back on your death bed with fond memories of work, then it doesn't matter how much you made as long as it kept the wolves from the door.

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I have friends flying with airlines who usually pay more tax than I gross. I would not swap jobs, I could think of nothing worse than driving a flying bus full of cut price travellers. In 40 years flying Ag for a living I wouldn't have swapped it for any job.

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I have friends flying with airlines who usually pay more tax than I gross. I would not swap jobs, I could think of nothing worse than driving a flying bus full of cut price travellers. In 40 years flying Ag for a living I wouldn't have swapped it for any job.

 

I remember a cartoon that had a pilot in a 152 looking at a charter plane wishing he could fly that, the charter plane looking at the airliner wishing he could fly that, the airliner looking at a high alt research aircraft wishing he could fly that, the high alt looking at the space shuttle wishing he could fly that, and the shuttle pilot looking at the 152 through a telescope wishing he could just go back to flying for fun!!!

 

I agree with the airline sentiment, I am glad I went military when I did and had the opportunity to fly the aircraft I did when I did. Had I let that pass (and I very nearly did to go OS and get lined up for an airline) I would have spent the rest of my life wishing I had!! Ended up just flying for fun for many years but plan on being back in the right seat instructing again very soon.

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Good onyer Jase. I reckon you will have lots of fun instructing too. Its a very worthwhile thing to do.

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I’d rather be a tradie today, we needed an electrician recently and the fixed price job worked out at over $300 an hour

 

yeeees! electricians, and especially we, communication/security techs, are BLOODSUCKERS! Personally me is a great humanist, my rate starts from silly $100.

 

Its just because no one can do even basic things. Plug in equipment in socket, restart (switch off-on) everything, search for records on the stupidiest recorder, make a swipe key in simple software etc. It looks like system western education flaw - no one learns anything in technology, gets simple exprerience etc. It does not require years of learning, just to play with kids electrical toy kit in kindy - lights, batteries, switches, wires, my granny the primary school teacher did it 40 years ago with her pupils... no, no one did it, this is so difficult, unpleasant, distracts from footy, performance art and dreams to be a pilot in white shirt. Well, ok, in this case I get my money for plane, and no remorse!

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House call charges are a killer. Me, I work for the man but don't get out of bed for less than $50 an hour.

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I'm such a diy guy that I worry if they will discover some of my wiring in the ashes and move me to jail.

Here's a tragedy though... the public out there pay professionals to do their exercise while they sit in the stadium, but they don't pay professionals to do their eating. So they get all sorts of diseases.

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Pre the CV19 BS most of yr run of the mill Airline narrow body Capt drivers where getting $200-250 per hr. For the training/study and the forever risk of not being able to fly at the drop of a hat meant it's not that well a paid job especially when you take into account the responsability and the uncertainty the Airline business brings.The best advice for anyone contemplating such a risky career is habe a plan B!

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In Aviation, most just want the biggest, newest, sexyest plane without considering the lifestyle factor and job satisfaction.. There's an unfortunate tendency to look down on those operating more mundane vehicles. Long haul giant jetliners are rotten jobs where everything you do is monitored you are depersonalised and there's no communication with passengers or anyone much and you work all odd hours and stay in the HILTON "Anyplace" till you get back in and do the same or similar, long trip again.

IF you fly a corporate Jet, you go everywhere and organise everything yourself and know what reality is.. Nev.

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In Aviation, most just want the biggest, newest, sexyest plane without considering the lifestyle factor and job satisfaction.. There's an unfortunate tendency to look down on those operating more mundane vehicles. Long haul giant jetliners are rotten jobs where everything you do is monitored you are depersonalised and there's no communication with passengers or anyone much and you work all odd hours and stay in the HILTON "Anyplace" till you get back in and do the same or similar, long trip again.

IF you fly a corporate Jet, you go everywhere and organise everything yourself and know what reality is.. Nev.

 

 

All true, I wouldn't recommend the Airlines these days, it's just a job afterall more a trade than anything else!

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. With more "uncertainties" than a lot of others. Medical , having someone "upstairs" not like you and you get a check ride no one can pass or they get rid of expats for political reasons. Pilot's don't automatically fall back into more "ordinary" jobs either. Some certainly exhibit illusions of grandeur which doesn't help them adjust..

I always liked Instructing which is quite challenging if you do it thoroughly. Many other pilots came up to me and said "I wouldn't have the patience to do THAT job".

That aspect of it was never a factor with me, provided the student was fair dinkum about "their" learning. I don't care how BASIC a Plane is.. I'll fly it if it's put together properly. It's still an aeroplane and will bite you if you're complacent and over relaxed. (like all of them) Nev

Edited by facthunter
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yeeees! electricians, and especially we, communication/security techs, are BLOODSUCKERS! Personally me is a great humanist, my rate starts from silly $100.

 

Aviation never has been well paid once you get away from the RPT stuff.

 

When I started out, (1965), I received the princely stipend of A$5/hr, and for that I supervised refuelling, loading/unloading and kept the cargo & pax manifests updated, did a load sheet at each location, flight planned, and flew the clapped out aircraft over tiger country in lousy conditions. I really did feel priveliged because there were 500 odd CPLs without a career job in Australia.

 

In 2012, I contracted for a low level survey job at $80/ flight hr, and did all of the above at 150ft. Didn't feel as though things had changed much in 35 years, given inflation over that time! Again, CPLs hanging out of trees looking for a 1st job.

 

Today, I still charge $88/hr for GA instructing, because the market simply can't support rates of $150+/hr. Well, I may be a bit old fashioned here, but when the pilot costs more than the aircraft - there's something awry.

 

With RAAus, I generally keep my charge out to between $66/hr and $88/hr, depending on the complexity of the flight: BFRs at the higher end.

 

For this, the student receives an hour of brief/debrief with their 1 hr of dual. And, it's not as thought I'm a junior instructor with little real life flying experience.

 

My rationalisation is simply that, to keep our industry afloat, we have to keep our charges within bounds. I think that $200-240/hr for dual RAAus training is a reasonable thing for many schools: given that the aircraft is probably worth north of $100k, and overheads are rising every year on most airports.

 

Unfortunately, the industry isn't going to change much because of a contraction in discretionary spending: which maintains the pressure to hold charges down. As far as I can see, this isn't going to change, and it means there is no way anyone can make a living from instructing alone: it will always be a part-time/hobby/love job! I'm retired, and can afford to operate, but I feel for the many schools who are really struggling.

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