question Engine Guages?

[jackc]

In wanting to revamp my instrument panel, I was looking to fit Murphy Guages or Aviation equivalent. Reason is I want a buzzer and red light next to each guage. I don’t like to visually scan Guages on takeoff, I should be looking outside the whole time, except a quick glance at airspeed which is a large guage directly in front of me on the panel. IF I have an engine problem on take off, I can make immediate decision on next move based on an audible alarm and light, I don’t want to stare at the guage trying to read oil pressure, IF my alarm goes off, IT is a problem I need to attend to ASAP.

Next, is it legal to fit automotive Guages to a 19 rego aircraft? If not, are there equivalents for aircraft. I do not want to fit a ‘Home and Away’ glass screen:-).

 

[Blueadventures]

I've got aviasport guages. There marked for rotax plus I added the led that are on in the red arc, blink for yellow arc an off for green. Very good probably what your after.

[M61A1]

I think that you are overthinking the issue. On takeoff you won't be looking at engine gauges and especially not oil pressure. If you have an oil pressure loss on takeoff, you will likely be going around unless it's very early. The last thing you need is a distraction telling you to reduce power on climbout.

For most light aircraft an audible alarm will be useless unless it's wired into your intercom, or REALLY LOUD.

[jackc]

I think that you are overthinking the issue. On takeoff you won't be looking at engine gauges and especially not oil pressure. If you have an oil pressure loss on takeoff, you will likely be going around unless it's very early. The last thing you need is a distraction telling you to reduce power on climbout.

For most light aircraft an audible alarm will be useless unless it's wired into your intercom, or REALLY LOUD.

 

My instructor is right onto visually checking Guages on take off, as far as oil pressure goes, its the item that needs immediate attention IF it drops drastically, but there is another answer to mitigate oil pressure loss, to a certain degree.

 

http://infinityaerospace.com/product/other/pre-oiler-and-back-up-engine-oil-pump/

[Blueadventures]

Aviasport are helpful as they blink in the yellow, grabs attention when scanning instruments at any time in flight, being the yellow zone not urgent just needs consideration. One of my beliefs in life is look after engines, treat them well and they should pay you back in kind by giving good reliable operation and less breakdowns. IMHO

[jackc]

Aviasport are helpful as they blink in the yellow, grabs attention when scanning instruments at any time in flight, being the yellow zone not urgent just needs consideration. One of my beliefs in life is look after engines, treat them well and they should pay you back in kind by giving good reliable operation and less breakdowns. IMHO

 

Checked their web site but there was no mention of visual warning on the Guages? Need to check further.....

[Blueadventures]

Checked their web site but there was no mention of visual warning on the Guages? Need to check further.....

Yep. There is an extra pin on the back of the guage. You will see it on the wiring diagram I only learnt about them from Scott and his Nynja when I said hi as his engine was warming up and noticed the blinking light as the coolant came up to temp. I also added a starter still engaged warning light as I know of one rotax having its starter stay engaged. Simple warning methods and can prevent inconvenience and costly starter replacement. If ever up Mackay way give me a call if you want to see the wiring setup. Cheers

[jackc]

Yep. There is an extra pin on the back of the guage. You will see it on the wiring diagram I only learnt about them from Scott and his Nynja when I said hi as his engine was warming up and noticed the blinking light as the coolant came up to temp. I also added a starter still engaged warning light as I know of one rotax having its starter stay engaged. Simple warning methods and can prevent inconvenience and costly starter replacement. If ever up Mackay way give me a call if you want to see the wiring setup. Cheers

 

When we all get our get out of jail cards, I might come for a drive anyway, thanks for the offer!

[facthunter]

More gauges more likelihood of false warnings. The early "flying block of flats" (Boeings B 747) had about 1/2 of the warnings initially fitted, removed. They were getting too many rejected take offs.. You should have minimum gauges say oil pressure and rpm. …. CHT, oil temp etc won't apply till climb out. Loss of power( RPM unless you have CS prop) will also be FELT if you are familiar with the plane. IF the length of the strip is marginal take full power on the brakes before you roll and check carb heat "off" each time you put the throttle forward "automatically". just to be sure. If your engine doesn't feel or sound RIGHT reject the take of and check it, Nev

[kgwilson]

You will check your engine gauges on startup, before taxying to make sure your warmup is good, runup and just before applying full power for takeoff. You may glance at them at other times while taxying etc but on climb out you won't be looking at any engine gauges as your primary objective is to gain height safely so its attitude and airspeed. During the flight you scan all gauges regularly.

 

Why your instructor wants you to scan engine gauges on takeoff is a mystery to me. You need to get sufficient height to go around for an immediate landing if oil pressure is lost. If it happens after takeoff you probably won't have enough runway left to land straight ahead anyway unless you are on 21/03 at Coffs (2080 metres) & that is not where you will be normally flying your Aeropup.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I've never looked at my oil pressure gauge during takeoff. Gosh you would have to be unlucky if it failed just then. But I like the idea of a warning flasher or buzzer as long as you could turn it off.

Jabirus have an oil pressure sender which screws directly onto the engine block. This is safer but does not protect the sender itself from vibration. So they are known to fail, and a loss of oil pressure with no other symptoms is easy to diagnose as a gauge failure.

The other symptoms would include rough running and temperatures rising.

If you want, you could add a bit of hose between the engine block and the oil-pressure sender. But don't blame Jabiru if you lose all of your oil from a leak in this hose.

[kgwilson]

I've had a sender fail. Instead of no pressure, the needle went off the scale high pressure, then fluctuated all over the place. Nothing else changed so I continued the flight & after a few minutes it went back to normal. I suspected the sender or pressure relief valve. It was the sender.

[jackc]

You will check your engine gauges on startup, before taxying to make sure your warmup is good, runup and just before applying full power for takeoff. You may glance at them at other times while taxying etc but on climb out you won't be looking at any engine gauges as your primary objective is to gain height safely so its attitude and airspeed. During the flight you scan all gauges regularly.

 

Why your instructor wants you to scan engine gauges on takeoff is a mystery to me. You need to get sufficient height to go around for an immediate landing if oil pressure is lost. If it happens after takeoff you probably won't have enough runway left to land straight ahead anyway unless you are on 21/03 at Coffs (2080 metres) & that is not where you will be normally flying your Aeropup.

 

Coffs is not a problem for land straight ahead, as you say. Loss of oil pressure is rare at almost anytime but IF it happens you need to take immediate action and take off is the worst time. IF a motor loses oil pressure its a very short time before there are big noises and it stops. IF you are made aware of the impending problem 5 seconds before it stops that is an extra 5 seconds in which to help make hopefully the right decision, and land safely. I am somewhat paranoid about takeoffs, although 2 good choices at Coffs, land straight ahead or, head for the beach:-)

[skippydiesel]

I will say it again - why do people go out and purchase expensive engine gauges when you can use very cost effective ones made by companies like Speco Thomas ? They are durable, they work, they give you all the same information and probably cost 1/3 of the aviation/name brand units.

[jackc]

I will say it again - why do people go out and purchase expensive engine gauges when you can use very cost effective ones made by companies like Speco Thomas ? They are durable, they work, they give you all the same information and probably cost 1/3 of the aviation/name brand units.

 

So what you are saying is I fit a Murphy gauge for oil pressure with low pressure alarm output either buzzer or light and my 19 reg aircraft is good to go:-)

[Blueadventures]

I will say it again - why do people go out and purchase expensive engine gauges when you can use very cost effective ones made by companies like Speco Thomas ? They are durable, they work, they give you all the same information and probably cost 1/3 of the aviation/name brand units.

It's for me a mix of budget, quality, practicality, choice and readability, plus I like Airports colour graduations add to that the feature of connecting an led it's a winner for me. I do prefer classic / steam guages as if there is a fault one goes out. Fault in glass may render all unservicable. I ladjusted my prop and did a during maintenance run this morning. Picking up a loan dynavibe dynamic balancer at midday. So keen to see the difference after any adjustments.

[onetrack]

I've never seen a Murphy Swichgage (correct name spelling) fitted to an aircraft - and I can find nothing in Murphy literature, to say they can be fitted to an aircraft.

They're a very durable and well built gauge, with the added complexity of including a switching mechanism which is specifically designed to shut down, unattended ground-equipment engines, when set parameters are exceeded.

 

However, Murphy state that their Swichgages are built specifically for oilfield equipment, and mobile equipment such as engine-driven welder, compressors, pumps, etc.

Looking through the specifications shows the Murphy Swichgage is an extremely heavy unit, with the 2 inch unit weighing 370 grams and the 2.5 inch unit weighing 413 grams.

 

In my considered opinion, you are taking on unnecessary aircraft weight by planning to utilise a Murphy Swichgage, when there are plenty of other suitable gauges available, that are designed specifically for aviation use.

 

https://www.fwmurphy.com/products/gages/20t-25t

[jackc]

I've never seen a Murphy Swichgage (correct name spelling) fitted to an aircraft - and I can find nothing in Murphy literature, to say they can be fitted to an aircraft.

They're a very durable and well built gauge, with the added complexity of including a switching mechanism which is specifically designed to shut down, unattended ground-equipment engines, when set parameters are exceeded.

 

However, Murphy state that their Swichgages are built specifically for oilfield equipment, and mobile equipment such as engine-driven welder, compressors, pumps, etc.

Looking through the specifications shows the Murphy Swichgage is an extremely heavy unit, with the 2 inch unit weighing 370 grams and the 2.5 inch unit weighing 413 grams.

 

In my considered opinion, you are taking on unnecessary aircraft weight by planning to utilise a Murphy Swichgage, when there are plenty of other suitable gauges available, that are designed specifically for aviation use.

 

https://www.fwmurphy.com/products/gages/20t-25t

As has been suggested, the Aviasport Guages are probably best, just redo the whole instrument panel with them:-)

My Murphy Guage interest comes from our Army gear 50 years ago, they were in nearly everything.

[Blueadventures]

As has been suggested, the Aviasport Guages are probably best, just redo the whole instrument panel with them:-)

My Murphy Guage interest comes from our Army gear 50 years ago, they were in nearly everything.

Hi Jack Attached are images of the gauges and the leds and warning lights (Coolant temp, Oil pressure, Low fuel and Started engaged. Could do oil temp and fuel pressure if you like; the but the four I have is ok.) Hope it helps your question.

[jackc]

Like it very much, those Aviasport Guages make it and they are marked well. My Aeropup panel is going to need some planning, currently it’s like this.....

[waraton]

MGL agent in Australia here http://lightflying.com.au/ The Blaze color series here Blaze Color Singles

I use ASV - 2 and EMS - 2. From my experience they are brilliant tools. Asia Pacific Light Flying are really helpful and a great local company to deal with. Great value for money as well. Easily set up with parameter alarms, easy to read in an open cockpit, I love mine. There are heaps of instruments to choose from and accessories as well.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

All very nice and with the added cachet of having some reference to aviation in the name (which you will pay handsomely for).

 

Jackc - I commend your KISS panel - only what you need and no more.

 

It all comes down to personal preference & the availability of the might $$.

 

Speco (automotive/marine) engine gauges will do almost everything your sportyavaiation gauge will do, at a fraction of the price and probably have just as long a service life.

[jackc]

All very nice and with the added cachet of having some reference to aviation in the name (which you will pay handsomely for).

 

Jackc - I commend your KISS panel - only what you need and no more.

 

It all comes down to personal preference & the availability of the might $$.

 

Speco (automotive/marine) engine gauges will do almost everything your sportyavaiation gauge will do, at a fraction of the price and probably have just as long a service life.

 

Thanks for comment on panel, just need to update some Guages marked for 912, and that horrible radio, will be GONE:-)

[kgwilson]

Jackc, Your panel is simple but messy IMHO. ASI, VSI, ALT & Tacho should be right in front of your view so you only need to look down slightly and not sideways to see everything. Comms & nav gear is best in the centre and engine instruments on the right. Switches, fuses & warning lights should be grouped logically. The panels of most Cessnas, Pipers & jabirus are an ergonomic mess.

 

I designed my own panel with everything where I thought it should be and controls requiring the least movement of my hands so Throttle, carb heat, & flap switch are in the same left hand binnacle with centre stick /PTT switch, radio & trim wheel at right, flight instruments directly in front on the left, comms in the centre with all switches below & engine instruments on the right angled towards me. The Dynon duplicates ASI,VSI, ALT & compass, & has AH, Turn & Bank & slip & a voltmeter. The blank space in the middle is for Nav tablet & space next to the radio is for a Xponder. I only have 1 warning light for ign/low voltage next to the power outlet. The digital instrument (velcoed on to the panel) is a clock/alarm/calendar in/out temperature & humidity ($7.50 on Ebay). I have 3 fuel tanks(centre main & 2 wing tanks) & the selectors are on the lower centre console with the transfer switch.

[jackc]

Jackc, Your panel is simple but messy IMHO. ASI, VSI, ALT & Tacho should be right in front of your view so you only need to look down slightly and not sideways to see everything. Comms & nav gear is best in the centre and engine instruments on the right. Switches, fuses & warning lights should be grouped logically. The panels of most Cessnas, Pipers & jabirus are an ergonomic mess.

 

I designed my own panel with everything where I thought it should be and controls requiring the least movement of my hands so Throttle, carb heat, & flap switch are in the same left hand binnacle with centre stick /PTT switch, radio & trim wheel at right, flight instruments directly in front on the left, comms in the centre with all switches below & engine instruments on the right angled towards me. The Dynon duplicates ASI,VSI, ALT & compass, & has AH, Turn & Bank & slip & a voltmeter. The blank space in the middle is for Nav tablet & space next to the radio is for a Xponder. I only have 1 warning light for ign/low voltage next to the power outlet. The digital instrument (velcoed on to the panel) is a clock/alarm/calendar in/out temperature & humidity ($7.50 on Ebay). I have 3 fuel tanks(centre main & 2 wing tanks) & the selectors are on the lower centre console with the transfer switch.

[ATTACH=full]52303[/ATTACH]

 

Interesting to see people’s panel layouts:-). The only addition I would like to add in my Aeropup panel upgrade is the artificial horizon that is in my training aircraft at Coffs Harbour.