Unfortunately a fatal crash near Maitland Airport 17/5/20

[Roundsounds]

A couple of things to note from the report on the Steve Cohen design on another thread.

 

1. Steve Cohen describes is as Homebuilt.

 

2. The considerable thrust moment above the CG at the higher power settings, and immediately on power loss.

This is what produces the sudden nose-up in these designs. It's not an issue if you have been trained for it and are on the ball, and may have no relationship to this accident, but worthwhile noting. In the past, when Endorsements were mandatory, this would have formed part of the specific training. Now that Endorsements have been discontinued there's less PL onlus on Instructors, CFIs and Owners, but someone can just step into one of these straight out of a Drifter, Jab etc and not be aware of the different handling required.

You’re obviously not aware of CASR 61.385.

[Flightrite]

61.385 is a broad stroke brush requirement, impossible to fully comply with 100% of the time! The buck stops with the driver everytime.

[turboplanner]

You’re obviously not aware of CASR 61.385.

CASR 61.385 is at the heart of what I was saying; it actually marks the formal shift point where CASA offloads its liability to the pilot.

Prior to that it was CASA's duty of care to ensure that a safe Endorsement standard was maintained, that the Endorsement training standard was safe, that the people issuing the endorsement were correctly qualified, and if currency was required, that it was being complied with (that won't be exactly correct or complete but it generally shows CASA's responsibilities.

 

Now, the PIC is responsible for all that, so a shift in public liability much like the many others.

 

The achilles heel in that, is how does a pilot become aware of all the specific issues which can kill him when he steps out of the aircraft he was trained in and into another?

[Thruster88]

CASR 61.385 is at the heart of what I was saying; it actually marks the formal shift point where CASA offloads its liability to the pilot.

Prior to that it was CASA's duty of care to ensure that a safe Endorsement standard was maintained, that the Endorsement training standard was safe, that the people issuing the endorsement were correctly qualified, and if currency was required, that it was being complied with (that won't be exactly correct or complete but it generally shows CASA's responsibilities.

 

Now, the PIC is responsible for all that, so a shift in public liability much like the many others.

 

The achilles heel in that, is how does a pilot become aware of all the specific issues which can kill him when he steps out of the aircraft he was trained in and into another?

 

Reading the POH is always a good start.

[turboplanner]

Reading the POH is always a good start.

It is indeed.

However, how do you convert written information into handling skill?

The many threads on this site where people have tried to correct someone's handling problem with words have been hilarious.

If the POH was empirical, then we wouldn't need instructors to learn how to fly, we could do it from the POH.

So there is an issue

[jackc]

I

It is indeed.

However, how do you convert written information into handling skill?

The many threads on this site where people have tried to correct someone's handling problem with words have been hilarious.

If the POH was empirical, then we wouldn't need instructors to learn how to fly, we could do it from the POH.

So there is an issue

I study LOTS of YouTube stuff from supposedly reputable sources. It’s as good as I can get.

[turboplanner]

I study LOTS of YouTube stuff from supposedly reputable sources. It’s as good as I can get.

You don't have a CFI or Instructor?

[jackc]

You don't have a CFI or Instructor?

 

Over 1000km away and I don’t have the correct ‘papers’ to cross the border.......otherwise I would be there, flying!

[M61A1]

It is indeed.

However, how do you convert written information into handling skill?

The many threads on this site where people have tried to correct someone's handling problem with words have been hilarious.

If the POH was empirical, then we wouldn't need instructors to learn how to fly, we could do it from the POH.

So there is an issue

The learning the basics about flight should tell you a lot and be put into practice physically when learning to fly, when you learn to "feel" what is going on.

The POH can tell you about the intricacies of different aircraft as well having a good look at the configuration and which way the prop turns (if it has one).

If you aren't comfortable, get help....no issue.

[turboplanner]

The learning the basics about flight should tell you a lot and be put into practice physically when learning to fly, when you learn to "feel" what is going on.

The POH can tell you about the intricacies of different aircraft as well having a good look at the configuration and which way the prop turns (if it has one).

If you aren't comfortable, get help....no issue.

There's no issue with any of that, but:

• The POHs in many aircraft were not designed to take the place of an endorsement.
  
• A sentence can't always replace an instructor imparting a specialist handling requiement
  

[facthunter]

The POH gives you the limits you operate the plane to and perhaps some suggestions relating to technique in a general sense. It's not going to tell you the door strap is likely to break if the wind is behind you or that lowering flap will cause the nose to pitch up. Those things are basic and what any PILOT should anticipate.. Getting into an unfamiliar plane, one should not rely or it being like the last one you flew, In some cases you have to disconnect with the last one you flew or you will make a right mess of flying the new one...

There is some excellent stuff on U tube but from what I've experienced it's fairly rare. Often the commentary is not expert or well informed so the grain of salt must be ready to be taken.. Caution being the key word. A really thorough explanation followed by actually doing it till proficient and then a debrief to address any areas that may be needy of further clarification can cover it well.. You never know all there is to know but the basics must be sound to build the rest on. Nev

[Flightrite]

Having freelanced for many years jumping in and out of numerous planes (mainly twins) one got pretty good at adapting especially as I had a little black book with the various A/C's "need to know" numbers etc but if in doubt the POH was my go to resource?

[jackc]

The POH gives you the limits you operate the plane to and perhaps some suggestions relating to technique in a general sense. It's not going to tell you the door strap is likely to break if the wind is behind you or that lowering flap will cause the nose to pitch up. Those things are basic and what any PILOT should anticipate.. Getting into an unfamiliar plane, one should not rely or it being like the last one you flew, In some cases you have to disconnect with the last one you flew or you will make a right mess of flying the new one...

There is some excellent stuff on U tube but from what I've experienced it's fairly rare. Often the commentary is not expert or well informed so the grain of salt must be ready to be taken.. Caution being the key word. A really thorough explanation followed by actually doing it till proficient and then a debrief to address any areas that may be needy of further clarification can cover it well.. You never know all there is to know but the basics must be sound to build the rest on. Nev

 

In doing my researching I have found this.....

 

The Jacobson Flare ™// Best Landing Technique for Pilots

 

Anyone used the app?

[Butch]

In doing my researching I have found this.....

 

The Jacobson Flare ™// Best Landing Technique for Pilots

 

Anyone used the app?

I got it a few years ago.

 

Didn't think much of it.

 

If you have a good instructor take his advice......and practice makes perfect!

 

I think I need more practice! ?

Edited May 21, 2020 by Butch

[Flightrite]

In doing my researching I have found this.....

 

The Jacobson Flare ™// Best Landing Technique for Pilots

 

Anyone used the app?

 

Whilst there's always something to be gleamed out of such info most pilots tend to overthink the landing phase. A good stable App is very important, from there landings are generally a non event! Personally I do the opposite to what most drivers are doing, I use pitch to keep the 'picture' where I want in the window and the gas pedal to keep the speedo where it needs to be?

Edited May 21, 2020 by Flightrite

[Student Pilot]

As I've said before I find it best just to land the aircraft

[Blueadventures]

In doing my researching I have found this.....

 

The Jacobson Flare ™// Best Landing Technique for Pilots

 

Anyone used the app?

Jack While you can’t get down to your fixed wing lessons consider joining Central Queensland Gliding Club it will be a bit different but you will be in the air, honing up about effect of controls, speed control, aiming point, spin recovery, and other things. Cheers

Edited May 21, 2020 by Blueadventures

[facthunter]

The aeroplane WILL land one way or another. It will be between "the ground is down there somewhere float" to $#1T what happened.? Nev

[KRviator]

The aeroplane WILL land one way or another. It will be between "the ground is down there somewhere float" to $#1T what happened.? Nev

The difference between "Landing" and "Crashing" is defined as an ability to use the plane again...

 

One thing I have found, or rather, not found in most POH's is those nuances that you are either taught (by a good instructor) or learn yourself, about particular airplanes. Flap pitch couples, opposite or into turn rudder rolling into a bank are a couple of examples I can thing of, off the top of my head. POH's are great for performance and limitations, but handling tricks and quirks, not so much.

[ClintonB]

Sometimes it is just an arrival you walk away from, usually resulting in hurt pride if anyone witnesses it.?

[facthunter]

While flying an approach too slow is dangerous doing it too fast is usually just a lazy bad habit. A good landing done consistently requires that one actually does things about it rather than just pull the stick back a bit when you notice how close the ground is. Every one is just that bit different and even if it isn't, it might be in the next second or so if you hit a dust devil (without the dust). Nev

[jackc]

Jack While you can’t get down to your fixed wing lessons consider joining Central Queensland Gliding Club it will be a bit different but you will be in the air, honing up about effect of controls, speed control, aiming point, spin recovery, and other things. Cheers

 

I am working on a plan:-)

[Student Pilot]

Sometimes it is just an arrival you walk away from, usually resulting in hurt pride if anyone witnesses it.?

Trouble is when you do the big bounce there's ALWAYS somebody watching

[Student Pilot]

While flying an approach too slow is dangerous doing it too fast is usually just a lazy bad habit. A good landing done consistently requires that one actually does things about it rather than just pull the stick back a bit when you notice how close the ground is. Every one is just that bit different and even if it isn't, it might be in the next second or so if you hit a dust devil (without the dust). Nev

I'll agree everyone is different

[jackc]

I got it a few years ago.

 

Didn't think much of it.

 

If you have a good instructor take his advice......and practice makes perfect!

 

I think I need more practice! ?

 

The creator of the app is a 20,000 hour plus pilot‘ now retired from DC-9, 737 all models and 777 so based on that, he must have a few clues from his Aviation lifetime.