Butch Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 I think farming has gone to the top of the list as the most dangerous work environment. We have had two deaths in our area in the last month on quad bikes. One 80 and the other mid 60's. The best thing that I have acquired from becoming a pilot is the ability to evaluate risk, human behaviour, and get there syndrome. To save time in the past I would take short cuts, ignore risk, and think it won't happen to me ! It's like the ….Bold pilots and old pilots...…...you make your choice. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 There was a time when I was learning to fly gliders when we just happened to drive past a few dying motorcyclists. Thank goodness there were already ambulances etc there, and we had to look up later what had happened. This helped me convince the wife how safe gliding was in comparison to motorbikes. I like pmc's point about how relevant some accidents are to us personally. When I eliminate the ones which I wouldn't do, like flying into cloud-covered mountains, I think that what is left is very safe. A few fatalities have been the result of the pilot going into panic when the sound of silence replaced the engine noise, for another example. This is not relevant to us older wiser guys with heaps of gliding in our books, or indeed anybody well trained and in practice. The last fatality anywhere near Gawler was a metal aircraft which took off and flew into low overcast, from which it emerged in bits. I remember the day and deciding it wasn't a flying day at all. These are the equivalent events to the hoon drivers pmc mentioned. I personally discount them. So the question to the pessimists out there... How am I taking a risk if I continue to fly in good weather over wheat country? The tug pilot and glider pilot that were killed in a mid-air over wide open plains at Jondaryan might tell there is still some risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) You seem to have misséd the most problemmatic sport for deaths, How many close personal by deaths !. Iv,e not known but one sport that killed and maimed people I know. HOUSE RIDING. Even Superman sercumed to his horse ride injury. My daughters friend, Junior show pony chamion died. A friend from England lost her sense of taste after falling from a horse. Cracking her head open . Another daughter broke a few bones, from a horse fall. The list seems much longer than personally known, Car Motorcycle and flying put together. spacesailor Edited June 13, 2020 by spacesailor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightrite Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Explain 'House riding'?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Horse riding sure is dangerous. The geometry of a horse and a rider dictates that the rider fall on his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 That's if the horse doesn't fall on you as well!! Brother had his foot smashed when he was 17 when his horse ran into an overgrown fence hidden in bush. The horse fell on him, he couldn't get his foot out of the stirrup in time. That was in 1957, Dad didn't believe there was anything wrong with his foot, just bruised! But it wasn't, the bones were broken, he ended up with a deformed foot and still has trouble walking and getting shoes to fit. However, at 80 this year, he's left it too long to fix, so he's stuck with the damage. Knew a bloke who got kicked in the face with a horse when he was a kid, he was lucky to survive, and his face was a permanent mess. I got bitten by a horse our family owned, when I was 6 or 7, so that put me off horses for life!! The damn things are 10 times as dangerous as light aircraft and flying!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 That's if the horse doesn't fall on you as well!! Brother had his foot smashed when he was 17 when his horse ran into an overgrown fence hidden in bush. The horse fell on him, he couldn't get his foot out of the stirrup in time. That was in 1957, Dad didn't believe there was anything wrong with his foot, just bruised! But it wasn't, the bones were broken, he ended up with a deformed foot and still has trouble walking and getting shoes to fit. However, at 80 this year, he's left it too long to fix, so he's stuck with the damage. Knew a bloke who got kicked in the face with a horse when he was a kid, he was lucky to survive, and his face was a permanent mess. I got bitten by a horse our family owned, when I was 6 or 7, so that put me off horses for life!! The damn things are 10 times as dangerous as light aircraft and flying!! If you can’t switch it off, don’t go near it:-) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) The point about insurance companies is very valid. Money talks and bullshit walks, as the movie said. Apparently, in the early 1900’s insurance companies already knew that asbestos was bad. Actually, the Romans knew to give their slaves pig skin masks if they worked with asbestos, to help the slaves live longer. As far as I can remember, insurance companies take a dimmer view of aircraft than motorcycles. Edited June 13, 2020 by APenNameAndThatA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 I think farming has gone to the top of the list as the most dangerous work environment. We have had two deaths in our area in the last month on quad bikes. One 80 and the other mid 60's. The best thing that I have acquired from becoming a pilot is the ability to evaluate risk, human behaviour, and get there syndrome. To save time in the past I would take short cuts, ignore risk, and think it won't happen to me ! It's like the ….Bold pilots and old pilots...…...you make your choice. I suspect motorbikes are safer than quad bikes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 I often wonder how police can operate motorcycles given the appalling accident statistics of bikes. Workcover (NSW) would be on their case like flies on manure so they must be doing something very different to the average rider. Is it very good training, detailed assessment of risks, competency based testing of skills and mental attitude, strong oversight by management, sounds a bit like flying. One major advantage we pilots have is total control over our situation including but not limited to what we will do in an engine malfunction situation. Mid air collision is the only thing we cannot totally control, fortunately very rare. My understanding is that the police would like to stop using motorcycles but that they can do things that cars can’t. That’s not very specific info, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 There was a time when I was learning to fly gliders when we just happened to drive past a few dying motorcyclists. Thank goodness there were already ambulances etc there, and we had to look up later what had happened. This helped me convince the wife how safe gliding was in comparison to motorbikes. I like pmc's point about how relevant some accidents are to us personally. When I eliminate the ones which I wouldn't do, like flying into cloud-covered mountains, I think that what is left is very safe. A few fatalities have been the result of the pilot going into panic when the sound of silence replaced the engine noise, for another example. This is not relevant to us older wiser guys with heaps of gliding in our books, or indeed anybody well trained and in practice. The last fatality anywhere near Gawler was a metal aircraft which took off and flew into low overcast, from which it emerged in bits. I remember the day and deciding it wasn't a flying day at all. These are the equivalent events to the hoon drivers pmc mentioned. I personally discount them. So the question to the pessimists out there... How am I taking a risk if I continue to fly in good weather over wheat country? Yes, modifying the base rates is a good idea. I know that I won’t drive drunk. With the flying accidents, I tell myself that if other people made those mistakes, then so can I. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 From Fatality statistics by industry | Safe Work Australia the annual fatalities per 100,000 workers in Australia are: Agriculture, forestry & fishing 11.2 Transport, postal & warehousing 5.9 Mining 3.7 Construction 2.0 If we take the worst at 11.2, this is one fatality per 8,929 workers. Then allow 1840 hours exposure per worker per year we get one fatality per 16.5 million hours of exposure. If the RAA rate is one fatality per thousand members per year and generously allowing 50 hours flying per year, this is one fatality per 50,000 hours or 330 times the rate of the most dangerous industry grouping 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightrite Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 I gotta remove the calculators from you guys, you are scaring me?? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 There is a good reason why more people die playing bowls than any other sport. You just have to look at the majority of the participants at a bowling green on any given day to work out that likelihood. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Farming sure is a dangerous activity... heavy equipment and not many hours per year and then another job. And little training and supervision. But the 50 hours per year is not valid for flying in comparison to the total hours of say mining. If you added in all the hours of preparation etc you would get much more comparable figures. Totals for totals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleropilot Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 some interesting comments in this thread...first time I got on a horse I was appalled to discover the way I was supposed to stop it was to pull on a little leather strap and, as my instructor said, "hope for the best". didn't turn out well. I've ridden a lot of motorcycles over the years, had many close calls - I was lucky. one thing about comparing flying to driving is that in the sky, 747s don't ever fly towards you at a closing speed of 200kph and miss you by - oh, about two metres. unless you make a tiny navigational error and end up flying over an international airport. at least you will know that the multi tonne machine that just flew past you in the opposite direction has a highly trained professional sitting up front - and that's all I've got to say about that. from my old skydiving days: "geez Dave, isn't that dangerous?" me: "the most dangerous thing about skydiving is the trip to and from the airport!!!" as for ladders - they are the most dangerous mongrel bits of gear I've ever used, but the last 'encounter' was purely 'operator error' scenario: hmm, I need to drill a hole way up there - aha, I know, I will place the ladder on that platform that is about 1.5 metres above the concrete floor, then I shall use a ladder to get up there another 1.5 metres to drill the hole. now, what ladder shall I use - aha, there's a ladder right next to me, I shall use that. It's a piece of crap and very wonky, but it would take me all of TWO GOD DAMN MINUTES to go and get the brand new $200 one I bought to replace the crap one. anyone care to guess what happened next? let's just say I don't recommend the injuries known as: cracked ribs, broken ribs, and punctured lungs....and yes, of course I ended up on the concrete, after first bouncing off the platform my wife now jokes that when I say I'm heading off to the shed to do some work, she get's the first aid kit out and keeps a phone with 000 on speed dial handy. she never bothered to do that when I jumped out of perfectly good aircraft/rode motorcycles/flew my paraglider/flew my Drifter... BP 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 I think Facthunter has got it right, it is up to us. We don’t have to fly if wx is marginal etc. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) Hydraulic equipment on farms and quadbikes are of concern if you don't stop yourself from getting into risky situations. I might be the odd man out, but I've lost a lot of flying mates over my flying lifetime, more than from any other cause/association,'. Despite that I believe YOU have the biggest effect in just how dangerous it is. I took risks (calculated) but still applied risk management.. When you are young and full of enthusiasm you do these things. You get wiser later as your knowledge and experience grow (if you are 1/2 smart. As a starter .. Don't show off (ever) Check your plane(carefully) Plan fully. allow safe margins of everything. No "I think she'll be right". ALL about how YOU do it. Flying doesn't have to be as dangerous as some make it. I wouldn't give it up because of the risk factor IF you apply yourself. Nev Edited June 14, 2020 by facthunter 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hargraves Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 I genuinely believe the most dangerous aspect of my flying is shared 50/50 by the takeoff and the drive to the strip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raytol Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 The old saying was " you are more likely to be killed driving/ riding to the airport than flying in your aircraft". Not sure this is statistically correct but it sounds good! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightrite Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 The old saying was " you are more likely to be killed driving/ riding to the airport than flying in your aircraft". Not sure this is statistically correct but it sounds good! Oh why did you have to say that? All the statisticians are gunna fire up their calculators again now???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 ... Don't show off (ever) Check your plane(carefully) Plan fully. allow safe margins of everything. No "I think she'll be right"... Good advice, Nev. I've never had any of my family, not even my missus, at the airport to see me fly. Not having an audience while preflighting or flying must improve safety. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 No distractions, better the job is done. Taking a phone call is just as big a disconnect if you are in the middle of something that requires concentration. If you scare your passenger that may be one less potential pilot. in the system .Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightrite Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 At the end of the day life without risk is not life at all! Embrace it, be safe and leave the rest to fait as we are each owed a death someday!?? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Sorry I can't connect with that. An unnecessary risk can be no life at all and that IS a waste and often there's others involved too. Fate I don't believe in. How could everything be pre determined? Of course we are ALL going to die sometime, but why rush it and die because of some silly omission? You can never eliminate ALL risk. I'm not suggesting you can.. Does being careful take all the fun out of it.? I hope not and suggest a lot of the fun is getting it right. I could not think of anything worse than my neglect causing some one's death or serious injury.. That's one of the main reasons I'm against dumbing down Pilot training. What you don't teach may cause a catastrophe. Any other approach brings up a duty of care aspect. You don't do half a job and see that as ideal or even acceptable. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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