alf jessup Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Not necessarily. I've had smoke in the cockpit. I know how I react. Winnie Blue or PJ Gold? Where did you put the ash & butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_Atrick Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Menthol outlawed here now.. but... (never had a cancer stick in my life...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_Atrick Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 OK..back to the thread... Seems to have been a good outcome regardless.. Different people react differently.. And they react differently to the same situation... Any of these factors (and more) may play for any given flight which may cause a different reaction in the same pilot to the same circumstances: ‘IM SAFE’ Illness – are you suffering from any? Medication – are you taking any? Stress – are you suffering from any Alcohol – when did you last drink? Fatigue – are you well rested? Eating – have you eaten recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 [TABLE] [TR] [TD]13/6/2020[/TD][TD]Yarram[/TD][TD]VIC[/TD][TD]Zenith[/TD][TD]Zodiac CH 601 HD[/TD][TD]Subaru[/TD][TD]EA81[/TD][TD]STATUS: Under Investigation EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: The aircraft departed Yarram airport a... [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]STATUS: Under Investigation EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: The aircraft departed Yarram airport and headed to the south east of the field. Upon reaching the coast it was noticed that engine coolant was coming out from the engine cowling and dripping onto the dashboard, the pilot turned the aircraft around to head back to the airport. Shortly after turning back smoke started to fill the cockpit so the pilot called Yarram’s frequency to advise aircraft was experiencing engine troubles and was intending to return to the airport. As more smoke filled the cockpit the pilot opened the latch to their side of the canopy in an attempt to let some of the smoke out, it helped however visibility was still impaired. When the aircraft was approx. 2 miles from the strip the engine started to seize and had no power. The passenger (also a pilot) attempted to land the aircraft in a clearing in front of them, as the pilot could not see clearly due to fogged glasses. Just before the clearing they saw a glimpse of the tree canopy through the smoke and realised that we were not going to make it. The aircraft then made contact with and remained suspended in the trees approx. 7m above the ground. One occupant fell to the ground and the other managed to climb safely to the ground.[/TD][TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] With smoke (possible fire) entering the cockpit and the engine likely to fail from coolant loss anyway a decision to land immediately may have been prudent. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightrite Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Menthol outlawed here now.. but... (never had a cancer stick in my life...) Same here, never smoked, could never understand that mentality! Gotta love the corny adds with Hoges & Strop in them, real characters!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightrite Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 [TABLE] [TR] [TD]13/6/2020[/TD][TD]Yarram[/TD][TD]VIC[/TD][TD]Zenith[/TD][TD]Zodiac CH 601 HD[/TD][TD]Subaru[/TD][TD]EA81[/TD][TD]STATUS: Under Investigation EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: The aircraft departed Yarram airport a...[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]STATUS: Under Investigation EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: The aircraft departed Yarram airport and headed to the south east of the field. Upon reaching the coast it was noticed that engine coolant was coming out from the engine cowling and dripping onto the dashboard, the pilot turned the aircraft around to head back to the airport. Shortly after turning back smoke started to fill the cockpit so the pilot called Yarram’s frequency to advise aircraft was experiencing engine troubles and was intending to return to the airport. As more smoke filled the cockpit the pilot opened the latch to their side of the canopy in an attempt to let some of the smoke out, it helped however visibility was still impaired. When the aircraft was approx. 2 miles from the strip the engine started to seize and had no power. The passenger (also a pilot) attempted to land the aircraft in a clearing in front of them, as the pilot could not see clearly due to fogged glasses. Just before the clearing they saw a glimpse of the tree canopy through the smoke and realised that we were not going to make it. The aircraft then made contact with and remained suspended in the trees approx. 7m above the ground. One occupant fell to the ground and the other managed to climb safely to the ground.[/TD][TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] With smoke (possible fire) entering the cockpit and the engine likely to fail from coolant loss anyway a decision to land immediately may have been prudent. I have to agree. A pilots biggest fear is fire whilst inflight, land ASAP, glad they survived that frieghtening exoerience! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I wonder if it might change how their next aircraft was built. I have one of those and I made sure I kept the coolant pipes out of the cockpit and went to a fair bit of trouble to ensure a good firewall seal. The fact that the 60l fuel tank is under the dash has always been a concern, but I've fabricated a new tank out of 0.050" aluminium instead of the 0.020 one that was with it. That said, the structure seemed to handle the crash better than I would have thought. Same here, never smoked, could never understand that mentality! Gotta love the corny adds with Hoges & Strop in them, real characters!? There was an article in the oz just the other day about what the PC crowd might think of Paul Hogan"s skits involving Delvene Delaney with her short shorts and men having smiling heart attacks when she bends over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 They got out of it, but a bit lucky. A slow stall speed plane can usually make a survivable or even undamaged outfield landing . Coolant loss means the engine won't usually run for long. It will be on at least 75% power and have a fair bit of heat to get rid of. Having some power makes the landing easier. Extensive cockpit smoke makes everything even more difficult. Side venting and some sideslipping might be the only way to clear it. Usually an engine can seize without a lot of smoke coming from it unless it's thrown something from inside to make a hole. Again, here you have more effect than just a loss of power and a fairly rapidly developing complex situation to deal with. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 I would think that there were no coolant pipes in the cockpit. The report states that coolant was coming out of the cowling and dripping onto the panel. It seems to be external to start and running into the cockpit. I wonder if the coolant caused a short in the panel. It would have been better to give a mayday on area frequency, rather than on a CTAF I would think, at least at the very start and then maybe back to CTAF when in the circuit. I was surprised when I gave a mayday years ago and got an immediate response from a nearby chopper asking if he could help. That was on area and if I had used the local CTAF he may not have heard it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightrite Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Yes the CTAF would have been the last location for such a call unless in the circuit and knowing of people who are monitoring same. When people are under duress logic can go out the window! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 . Aviate, Navigate, Communicate in that order. The pilots had plenty to do.. A steep learning curve. Most of what happens to the plane is in the control of the pilot,and at that stage external involvement won't help much and may be a distraction. Fire and mid airs are a pilot's worse nightmare. An unsuccessful (upset) landing with a fire.(if there was one.) won't make your day. You can get smoke without a fire despite the famous quote. Vision impairment and acrid smell doesn't help at all, when due smoke, and is double jeopardy when you are trying to fly it to a safe arrival. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Here is a link to the interview I would think that there were no coolant pipes in the cockpit. The report states that coolant was coming out of the cowling and dripping onto the panel. It seems to be external to start and running into the cockpit. I wonder if the coolant caused a short in the panel. It would have been better to give a mayday on area frequency, rather than on a CTAF I would think, at least at the very start and then maybe back to CTAF when in the circuit. I was surprised when I gave a mayday years ago and got an immediate response from a nearby chopper asking if he could help. That was on area and if I had used the local CTAF he may not have heard it. Yenn, I don’t think the area frequency would have helped all that much at that height as the Strzelecki ranges are at about 2000 Ft, not many airliners flying either to pick up the call as Melb ctr would have probably not heard the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRviator Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 I don’t think the area frequency would have helped all that much at that height as the Strzelecki ranges are at about 2000 Ft, not many airliners flying either to pick up the call as Melb ctr would have probably not heard the call.Something to be said for activating your ELT - if you have a fixed version - prior to landing. You can always call AMSA after landing if you are able to, and if you're not able, help is already coming. That's the only thing I don't like about carrying a 406 PLB in my vest, the inability to set it off before the landing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter081 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Chalk one up for air cooled donks!? That won’t make the Jabby bashers happy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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