old man emu Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 One of the dangers of our sense of smell is acclimatisation. Have you ever worked in an environment where a strong smell pervade? What about in a chocolate factory, or a piggery, or poultry shed, or a bakery? It does not take long for our minds to ignore a constant smell. Therefore, if you have a constant smell coming into the cabin, your mind will soon ignore it. Get used to smelling smoky air, and you will soon forget that where there's smoke there's Monoxide. As an aside, in another thread about the Cessna Cardinal, there is a CO detector clearly in sight on the instrument panel. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightrite Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 That's true OME we do tend to accept something even it is not considered normal, what is it! Normalisation of deviance? That could fit. I used to work for an Oil Co in another life and we got used to all sorts of petrochemical smells, any new person passing thru the site would say how an you stand the smell? What smell? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share Posted August 5, 2020 What will you think if someone dies because of CO2 poisoning in this aircraft. If you cannot bring yourself to report it, you should at least tell the owner to report it and make sure he does. The owner has a very experienced mechanic who seems to feel that my concern is not warranted - this is wher I left the matter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share Posted August 5, 2020 As for CO detector - I purchased a caravan/boatunit - battery good for about 2 years (can be replaced) from Bunnings Aerospace. Visual/Auditory?Digital read out with history in ppm 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_Atrick Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 I will never waste my money on those; bought a few in the last 2 yeras and shared with mates and myself. Also seen others not happy with them as they black out first sniff of CO. Best have been the longlife ones but no longer available at present. Bought a battery one (Aircraft Spruce $99 US) get readings about 10 on startup and some decents and then clears to 0. Cost $150 AUD but reusable and gives info about levels and when clear. Agree 110%.. My point though, was if one is going ot buy - then buy locally and better still from clearprop as it helps keep the forum going 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 There's more CO when the mixture is excessively rich. Some IDLE settings are very rich, and generally TO power is also. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raytol Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 CO is dangerous because it sneaks up on you. I was qualified to do repairs to underground fiberglass storage tanks. Our instructor told us that in this situation it is usual for three people to die. The first person passes out and the second person rushes in to help them. Then later a third person investigates to see why they haven't been seen for a while, and goes in ( by this time the compressor/ generator/ water blaster engine has stopped) and they die as well! I had just finished repairing some methanol tanks at the water treatment plant in Canberra. I was driving home and heard on the radio that just this scenario had just happened on a farm in the area! I was very grateful for all the safety gear I had to use under my Safe Work Management Scheme! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 CO is dangerous because it sneaks up on you. I was qualified to do repairs to underground fiberglass storage tanks. Our instructor told us that in this situation it is usual for three people to die. The first person passes out and the second person rushes in to help them... That's been stressed in our training as well. We humans seem to be hard wired to protect the pack, but this also works against individual survival; pretty similar to whales and their kin, who have a bad habit of coming ashore as a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KING Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Was flying in the UK recently and a big reminder on CO poisoning came with the death of Emilio Sala in a charter crash CO Poisoning is a very real danger - signs of nausea or headaches are prime symptoms and personality I’d be opening vents and getting on the ground - if I suspected it in any aircraft I’d flown in I wouldn’t feel comfortable leaving the pilot in command or owner completely aware of my concerns. Don’t think I’d be reporting anyone but I’d make sure my concerns were very clearly understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Don't expect to know when CO poisoning is happening to you. I speak from experience. I got into the back canopy of a friend's ute, expecting to catch a few zz's on our way to a campground. The rear wasn't fully sealed. I detected a very slight exhaust smell. Nothing much. Just as I was falling asleep, I felt rather stoned . It had only taken about 15 minutes before I realised I was not falling asleep, I was almost passing out. It took a huge effort to drag myself up and knock on the back of the cab to get the drivers attention. I almost didn't bother... Also important, is the fact that I felt sick, and foggy for about 12 hours after. It takes a long time to get out of your system, even at low levels. Make no mistake CO is insidious, it sneaks up on you. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Apparently CO is taken up in preference to oxygen by about ten to one. Bugger, you guys have made me buy a detector. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 CO is insidiously dangerous, it is not just toxic, by its nature it excludes Oxygen. Also remember CO sensors are electrochemical cells, sometimes biochemical and as such ALL have a limited life. Always discard as recommended by the manufacturer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Apparently CO is taken up in preference to oxygen by about ten to one. Bugger, you guys have made me buy a detector. Bruce our 1st Aid training has mentioned figures like 100 or 200 times. This preference by red blood cells for CO would also explain why it takes so long to purge it from our system. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Smoking has a similar effect on blood being able to carry oxygen. It make "altitude effect" come on at lower height than normal. Anyhow the discussion of CO has been a good one. .Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Generally speaking, I'd say you are absolutely right there, Facthunter. And I'd guess that would apply to most people too. We did, however, have an interesting anomaly on a high altitude course I attended some years ago: Briefly, a group of us were put in a pressure chamber and evacuated to 18,000' equivalent, which made us all feel very happy and laid back. We then put on breathing masks, were evacuated to 25,000' and took our masks off in pairs, with some simple coordination and maths tasks to perform. So the group got to watch each pair variously impacted by hypoxia within a couple of minutes, which was very instructive and sometimes quite amusing. The exception was one girl in the group, who just carried on doing the coordination and maths stuff no trouble: I think they kept her at it for about 5 minutes, and while I expect she was affected in various ways, she showed no signs of deteriorating as the rest of us had. And she was a smoker of average fitness, certainly not an athlete. I suppose I shall have to round that off by commenting on her lungs. Yes, guys, she had a nice set of lungs............ 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 You ARE a naughty boy. I Bob. Youth has a lot to do with it and whether you have acclimatized to higher altitudes.. THAT test was done at Pt Cook in the days I was involved and you usually did it as part of a pressurisation endorsement. FL 250 is on the margins and some can stay there quite a while. Get above say 310 and it's another story. SOME are affected at as low as 8,000 feet if their lung capacity and fitness is down. That's about what Commercial Airliners have the cabin at. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironpot Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Generally speaking, I'd say you are absolutely right there, Facthunter. And I'd guess that would apply to most people too. We did, however, have an interesting anomaly on a high altitude course I attended some years ago: Briefly, a group of us were put in a pressure chamber and evacuated to 18,000' equivalent, which made us all feel very happy and laid back. We then put on breathing masks, were evacuated to 25,000' and took our masks off in pairs, with some simple coordination and maths tasks to perform. So the group got to watch each pair variously impacted by hypoxia within a couple of minutes, which was very instructive and sometimes quite amusing. The exception was one girl in the group, who just carried on doing the coordination and maths stuff no trouble: I think they kept her at it for about 5 minutes, and while I expect she was affected in various ways, she showed no signs of deteriorating as the rest of us had. And she was a smoker of average fitness, certainly not an athlete. I suppose I shall have to round that off by commenting on her lungs. Yes, guys, she had a nice set of lungs............ Haha that brought back memories - we had the girl from Blue Peter in with us once! Happy days! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 While we're talking about nice lungs, that is relevant to the current pandemic; mine have been diagnosed with the first stages of emphasima, even though I wasn't a smoker. It's amazing how much I've done with such crappy lungs; even functioning pretty well at 13,000'. Since the nasty effects of this latest virus got my attention, I finally start taking my medication. Along with regular swimming, that has boosted my lung peak flow from 350 to 500- but I don't want to find out if that helps me survive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Well It's unlikely to make your chances worse, I would think... When you have the clothes peg thing on your finger what does the 02 reading on the monitor get to? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Well It's unlikely to make your chances worse, I would think... When you have the clothes peg thing on your finger what does the 02 reading on the monitor get to? Nev Can't answer that Nev. I keep as far away from hospital as possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Good thinking 99. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 The doctors seem to get anxious if the clothes peggy thing goes below 90%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 After my hip operation my O2 reading was down to 40 to 50, the doctors had a hard job keeping me awake to take deep breaths. As soon as I relaxed my reading dropped. And they would wake me up again. Should have been in post op one day but stayed three days due to low O2. And I did tell them, I,m hard to awaken after the operation. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I think below 60 they will be keeping a close eye on you. Smokers show up bad. Give it up guys (and ladies). Would you kiss and ashtray? Nev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I should say my H B was down to forty something. Normaly between 62 and 58, while resting. Last time it dropped to under 50, I collapsed and was shipped off to hospital. Nothing found, just saving my heart beats for later in life. LoL The wife doesn,t think it funny, funny that !. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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