RFguy Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) skippy, "breathtaking" is a bit strong . How about "is hard for me to understand". I used that one myself today... Edited November 9, 2020 by RFguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 Fair comment - will take that on board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 So what is the price of a 912 ULS fitted (no labour cost) including exhaust system, airbox & filter, CHT, Tacho, oil pressure and temperature gauges & senders? This is what came with my engine which is why I ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 OK, I have looked at my price quote from Floods 912ULS is 27k7 ex gst but that is without radiator, oil radiator, exhuast system, airbox, prop plate etc etc With the options you need when starting from scratch (not change out) is another 7 grand. so budget about 35 ex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 From memory all you get from Floods for a new engine is the engine plus the 4 little exhaust connections to the heads and the oil tank...the rest you must buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, kgwilson said: So what is the price of a 912 ULS fitted (no labour cost) including exhaust system, airbox & filter, CHT, Tacho, oil pressure and temperature gauges & senders? This is what came with my engine which is why I ask. KgWislon - As per RF & Kyle from Floods however if you have an European contact, you can probably shave $3k off that, but will depend on the Euro the day you put your money down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 but then you dont deserve any local service.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Freight from Europe is very expensive also from the USA at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 alright, I will add: From Floods, the importer, and one happy to sit on the phone and answer all your pesky questions and provide advice : 912ULS is 27k7 ex gst but that is without radiator, oil radiator, exhaust system, airbox, prop plate etc etc With the options you need when starting from scratch (not change out) is another 7 grand. so budget about 35 ex. You might do a few % better buying direct, but then you wont be supporting the local people, and they do a good job, by all accounts, and my own personal experience. glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 $3k is $3k (that was delivered + GST) - I guess a person needs to make a judgement on what is is most important in their situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Fly Jabiru 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 In your dreams! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) My Gen 3 roller cam follower Jab 3300A cost with instruments etc as mentioned above plus an extended prop flange back in March 2013 $18,633.88 inc GST delivered to my hangar door. Todays price is only a couple of grand more. I installed a 7 row Positech oil cooler & also needed a battery & regulator. Plus I added EGTs and a carb temp gauge. So engine, electrics, ducting, cooling, instruments was around 20k. The Rotax 912 ULS is a very good super reliable engine but at 35k over the top price wise IMHO. How about a rebuilt Lycoming IO360 for a Mooney M20J 201 that a friend imported from the US after the original engine had major issues after several thousand hours. Of course Lame installed but total cost was 85k. Now that is eye watering & he still has a 45 year old plane. Edited November 10, 2020 by kgwilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 Yep! Rotax 912/914 and now 915 are expensive, compared with Jab's but in my, completely biased, view you gets what you pays for and if you read any of the erlier comments not $35K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Second hand 912's are eagerly sought after..... no matter the hours and condition. So as a replacement, this figure comes off of your new engine price. If buying a straight out new one..... something else would probably be sought by me. 35k.....(with carbs..lol) nah, I'll take a pass on that. It's just taking the p!ss..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 9 hours ago, Downunder said: Second hand 912's are eagerly sought after..... no matter the hours and condition. So as a replacement, this figure comes off of your new engine price. If buying a straight out new one..... something else would probably be sought by me. 35k.....(with carbs..lol) nah, I'll take a pass on that. It's just taking the p!ss..... Good luck with all that - adding $5-7K to the value will have you spending quite a bit more than necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 That 5 to 7k is aircraft specific items..not the core engine which is only what you buy from the dealer...it has always been that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 Kyle - with each engine install being a near costume job, it makes no sense to compare dollar for dollar the finished fly away cost. It does make sense to compare identical systems/modules. The prices I am using are for the base engine, plus some odd bits & pieces that you may or may not want to use if you are replacing (eg cooling system top tank, exhaust stubs, etc) as supplied by every Rotax dealer (you also get a costed accessory list, that does not form part of the base cost). The purchasers choice to add or not, a host of options, in whatever configuration they choose, can not be used as a logical comparison (too may variables). The quotes I have received vary by $3k, on the base engine module I referred to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 So of course you have taken the exchange rate difference..the real difference not what you see on the idiot box on the news..the actual rate you get from the bank or the forex mob you use then added the freight cost and import paperwork cost then added 10% to the lot. And of course that exchange rate will vary in regards to the tax component depending on the day rate when the freight hits australia...not what you paid before it left. It could be higher or lower..usually its lower lately so it cost more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 What prices in what currency do you have there now...post them here and who from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 33 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said: So of course you have taken the exchange rate difference..the real difference not what you see on the idiot box on the news..the actual rate you get from the bank or the forex mob you use then added the freight cost and import paperwork cost then added 10% to the lot. And of course that exchange rate will vary in regards to the tax component depending on the day rate when the freight hits australia...not what you paid before it left. It could be higher or lower..usually its lower lately so it cost more All done on the exchange rate (EU/Au) at the time, plus freight, fudge factor for any additional handling (fumigation/paperwork/ etc) plus GST on "the lot". Naturally there will be a daily (even hourly) variation in the exchange rate but the Eu has remained fairly constant for a few months now. As you point out, could be luck/unlucky on the day the "parcel" hits the docks and the final payment could rise or fall accordingly. You have the currency, I have said Europe (that where Rotax comes from). Not prepared to go further. Anyone in the market for a Rotax can Google potential supplier's, make contact and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossK Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) Having looked at costs to own a plane (shouldn't really do that anyway) The Rotax whilst higher initial outlay works out cost effective. It doesn't require a top end overhaul at 1000hrs, which for the Jab is pretty much a bulk strip, not cheap (we we told budget $10K) and it seems most do a full overhaul at this stage. Thats if it makes it to 1000hrs. When it get to its 2000hr TBO, it's not worth much. The 912 is highly likley to make it's 2000hr TBO and you'll be able to sell it for $5k miniumum when done. This is not Jab bashing, I've flown all my training and flying since behind Jabs and they seem a good motor. But the lower initial outlay, doesn't nescessarily mean lower cost to own. Edited November 12, 2020 by RossK 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) Some people are getting 4000 hrs with the heads being done at 2000 on a 912... That's probably going to be my plan ..... Gearbox overhauls can be expensive. I'm told keeping the oil clean (ulp and frequent oil changes) can reduce this cost significantly. Edited November 12, 2020 by Downunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Downunder said: Some people are getting 4000 hrs with the heads being done at 2000 on a 912... That's probably going to be my plan ..... Gearbox overhauls can be expensive. I'm told keeping the oil clean (ulp and frequent oil changes) can reduce this cost significantly. Hi Downunder - I choose to do 50 hr oil changes (AeroShell Sport Plus 4) on my Rotax 912 ULS and burn only ULP. All other servicing is by the book. I figure that an oil change can do no harm, may do some good and even though the Sport Plus 4 is expensive (compared with auto oils) 3 litres wont break the bank. In 920 hrs I have never had to "top up" between changes and the amount that comes out, is almost the same as what goes in. I am not sure what you mean by getting the "head's done" - if I felt an overall was necessary & cost effective I would replace in/outlet valves, possibly springs,bore honed, pistons (& rings), all oil & coolant seals and probably have the carburettors reconditioned & alliterated - there may also be other stuff. I think it likely that a new engine may be a better/cost effective option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 On 31/08/2020 at 2:29 PM, facthunter said: Where a brand name meant something? . Even good stuff can be demolished by barbarians but bad stuff does it by itself if it EVER worked properly at anytime. Lots of US and Japanese (even) include parts made in China. . I'll say it again.... People buy only on price Paid.. IF they won't pay any extra who'll be able to sell stuff that's better (but more expensive)? Nev Professional salesmen; that's what they do for a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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