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This topic has been locked, thank you for your contributions on the subject...this is an aviation site so to discuss politics etc please feel free to engage is discussion on the Off Topic site Social

“I don't care who does the electing, as long as I get to do the nominating” William M Tweed You needn't look any further than that to find out why such duds as Trump become our political “leaders”.

Whatever he has lost it isn't credibility. He is right but there are too many idiots who are rusted on and think the Donald can do no wrong after 20,000 lies.

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The statement that the pool of candidates only includes politicians is incorrect. Trump was not a politician and was elected to office, probably because the electorate is sick of politicians. You could call it an experiment, I would call it a  failed experiment.

The Liberal party here in 2007 had a similar problem. They chose to stick with John Howard, who had well and truly passed his used by date. He was unseated by a non politician woman, who only served one term on parliament. Good on you Maxine.

The problem for the USA is how to bring back sense and stability to the government. I cannot see either candidate doing any good.

If Trump wins it will be a disaster and his VP is no better than he is. If Biden wins, then the only hope is that he is succeede quickly by his VP.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Oh, Dear. Poor old Trump. Quiet the villain apparently. Not sure just what he has actually done, though he’s a villain...🙂

 

Meanwhile, the son of Biden has been doing some cocaine and a little well paid wheeling and dealing under the auspicious of the seal of the then Vice President and it has all come out now... except, apparently facebook and twitter dont want yer to know about it...

 

 “...The Senate Judiciary Committee announced plans to subpoena Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey after the platform engaged in an unprecedented censorship spree, suspending the account of the New York Post, and locking the accounts of the Trump campaign as well as White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany, in the space of 24 hours...”

 

 

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/10/15/senate-judiciary-committee-will-subpoena-twitter-ceo-jack-dorsey-over-ny-post-censorship/

 

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

Oh, Dear. Poor old Trump. Quiet the villain apparently. Not sure just what he has actually done, though he’s a villain...🙂

 

Meanwhile, the son of Biden has been doing some cocaine and a little well paid wheeling and dealing under the auspicious of the seal of the then Vice President and it has all come out now... except, apparently facebook and twitter dont want yer to know about it...

FB I don’t know it these allegations are true, but this pales beside the monumental corruption of the Trump family.

it is on the public record that Trump and his family are milking the US taxpayer for everything they can- while avoiding paying tax themselves.

Donald Trump has told over 20,000 lies so why would you believe anything he says?

(No it ain’t Fake News, cos if it was, the thin-skinned baby would have sued the Washington Post and many other respected news sources.)

 

 

 

 

 

5C91D690-3DDC-4374-B74A-4419FE3E4BB3.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Flying Binghi said:

Oh, Dear. Poor old Trump. Quiet the villain apparently. Not sure just what he has actually done, though he’s a villain...🙂

 

If you get your news from Breitbart, you'll end up less informed than you were to start with.

 

You don't have to look far for Trump's crimes.  The fact that he's paid a total of US $750 tax in the last 11 years should be a good place to start.   Claiming $70,000 a year for THAT haircut?

 

I can't wait until he's out of office, he's broken multiple laws in both state and federal jurisdictions.  They will be on him like flies on a turd, which is a very apt analogy.

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10 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

FB I don’t know it these allegations are true, but this pales beside the monumental corruption of the Trump family.

it is on the public record that Trump and his family are milking the US taxpayer for everything they can- while avoiding paying tax themselves.

Donald Trump has told over 20,000 lies so why would you believe anything he says?

(No it ain’t Fake News, cos if it was, the thin-skinned baby would have sued the Washington Post and many other respected news sources.)

 

 

 

 

 

5C91D690-3DDC-4374-B74A-4419FE3E4BB3.jpeg

 

I think the late Kerry Packer had some choice words about paying tax..🙂

 

Just because yer not paying tax do not mean that a crime is being committed. There is an entire industry of accountants dedicated to working out how to legally avoid paying tax. Likely most American taxpayers work the system - should Trump not avail himself of the advice of taxation accountants ?

 

I’d like to see an actual reference to an actual documented crime Trump is supposedly accused of. Not some hand wave to conspiracy theory’s..🤨  

 

Please note, I were actually posting anti Trump stuff over at pprune before he were first elected - I have since mellowed a bit on the chap because I realised, if not Trump... then who ?  I think Ted Cruise has potential. And I think Candace Owens will be a shoo-in, though when she’s a bit older.

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

If you get your news from Breitbart, you'll end up less informed than you were to start with.

 

You don't have to look far for Trump's crimes.  The fact that he's paid a total of US $750 tax in the last 11 years should be a good place to start.   Claiming $70,000 a year for THAT haircut?

 

I can't wait until he's out of office, he's broken multiple laws in both state and federal jurisdictions.  They will be on him like flies on a turd, which is a very apt analogy.

Are you saying this article is in-correct then ?

 

 “...The Senate Judiciary Committee announced plans to subpoena Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey after the platform engaged in an unprecedented censorship spree, suspending the account of the New York Post, and locking the accounts of the Trump campaign as well as White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany, in the space of 24 hours...”

 

 

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/10/15/senate-judiciary-committee-will-subpoena-twitter-ceo-jack-dorsey-over-ny-post-censorship/

 

 

 

 

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The judiciary committee will hear matters it deems important or that are brought to it.. Given it is a committee of the senate. my guess is Republicans brought it., but unless there was malice from Twitter, I would welcome it if I were a democrat. They are probably doing this under a legal obligation which requires social media sites to remove or flag content that is fake news. In fact, after DTs tweets or posts a couple of weeks ago were removed/tagged, he has been calling for the removal of the law, which, also calls for incitement and hate speech to be removed within a reasonable period of time.. So a president is actively encouraging the removal of a law that aims to circumvent intentional and damaging fake news, hate speech incitement to commit crimes without suggesting how better to handle these (I guess seeing his rhetoric amounts to indirect incitement, I can see why he would want the law repealed).

 

Not only has Twitter been removing/tagging DT and his henchpeoples' posts, Facebook and Google have, too.. So if you're a theorist, you can probably smell a conspiracy somewhere..

 

Just because an action has been referred to, or looked into by the Senate Judicial Review Committee does not mean that the action is invalid, against the law, or discriminating (which is what BB wants to present). It just means it should be investigated. Frankly, as I said, if I were a democrat, I would be happy as I doubt Dorsey, whos business was flagging unil DT was elected, would be stupid enough to be that cavalier in his treatment of Trump and his cronies accounts.. Of course, I would  only be surprised if he was.. not shocked. And if the investigation determines it was valid under whatever the law was, well, DT will look worse to the swinging voters.. and he will just continue.. Further happiness to the democrats.


Personally, Trump has done so much wrong, that Biden's son - now reformed from a coke head (where DT is still DT) has little bearing - guess what at least that family can say they are human but fix things when they are wrong.. I am not so sure about the Trump family (maybe they are so wrong, that it is not fixable - and his kids aren't all clean, either).

 

On the taxes - yes, Kerry Packer correctly said something along the lines of "You're an idiot if you don't do everything you can to minimise your taxes". The fact it is so lop-sided is a failure of the system and I will not blame anyone from maximising their resourcces to legally achieve what they want to. But, I am sure KP paid a lot more tax than DT... And USD$750 in taz over many years to find the private lifestyle seems a little foul of doing it all within the law.

 

Back to the Judicial Committee hearings.. until anything comes of it, it is just another hearing.. they have plenty of them..

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The issue is that the (Murdoch) New York Post story about the Bidens is widely believed to be based on a Russian misinformation dump - just like what happened in 2016. The social media companies are trying - a bit - not to be drawn into a Putin inspired attempt to undermine US democracy yet again.

Even the Wall Street Journal (the thinking person's Murdoch read 😉 quoted a cyber security expert as saying that the social-media companies were probably doing the right thing in this instance - given the serious doubts about the source of the story.

 

Here is how today's Independent  (UK) reported the story:

 

 

 

 

Republican leaders on Capitol Hill have announced plans for a vote next week on whether to subpoena Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey over the platform’s recent decision to limit sharing of a New York Post story about Joe Biden.

“Twitter is actively blocking, right now this instant, stories from the New York Post,” Senator Ted Cruz told reporters on Thursday during a break at the Senate Judiciary Committee confirmation hearings for Supreme Court nominee Judge Amy Coney Barrett.

He added: “On Tuesday, the Judiciary Committee, the full committee, will be voting on subpoenas to subpoena Jack Dorsey to come before our committee."

 

Republicans have decried attempts by major social media platforms to limit sharing of the article that alleged links between former Vice President Joe Biden and his son’s business dealings, published just weeks before the November vote.Mr Biden’s campaign shot back against the claims made in the story — which has since been called into question by several reputable media outlets — as “Russian disinformation” in a statement.

The New York Post story, labelled “Biden Secret Emails,” had echoes of the data dump former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton faced in 2016 when her campaign manager and the Democratic National Committee’s emails were stolen and published online, though it did not present any indications of foreign involvement in obtaining the emails.
 

The Biden campaign strongly refuted the allegations in the story, saying the newspaper “never asked the Biden campaign about the critical elements of this story” and added: “They certainly never raised that Rudy Giuliani — whose discredited conspiracy theories and alliance with figures connected to Russian intelligence have been widely reported — claimed to have such materials.”

Major social media platforms quickly took action to limit the spread of the article as its findings were swiftly called into question, with distinguished journalists and credible fact-checkers raising serious questions about the veracity of the report.

As several prominent Republicans and conservative influencers continued attempts to promote the story, some were met with suspensions from platforms like Twitter. White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany has said she was one of those people whose accounts were locked after attempting to share the story.

Republicans celebrated the announcement of the upcoming vote, including Senator Josh Hawley, who wrote in a tweet: “That subpoena should include @Facebook.”

 

George Mesires, an attorney for Hunter Biden, refuted the allegations made in the story as well in a statement to Politico.

He said Mr Giuliani — the president’s longtime friend and personal lawyer — “has been pushing widely discredited conspiracy theories about the Biden family, openly relying on actors tied to Russian intelligence”.

Edited by Garfly
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This is probably more for socialaustralia.com.au, but given the last few posts, I will put it here. I find this the most balanced discussion about the presidential race and it does discuss some of the above:

 

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“I don't care who does the electing, as long as I get to do the nominating” William M Tweed

You needn't look any further than that to find out why such duds as Trump become our political “leaders”.

In the US, since the Citizens United case in the Supreme Court, a tsunami of dark cash has sloshed through the electoral system. When the case was being argued, the conservative judges were warned that this would be the result if the case was decided in favor of the (misnamed) Citizens United group*. Those conservative judges tied themselves in logical knots to arrive at an answer their ideology demanded and Donald Trump is the natural result of a political system run, by and for, oligarchs and large corporations.
But lest we get too smug here in Oz, the same financial pressures are being brought to bear here by those with deep pockets. And hardly a day goes by that another exposure of the lengths these people will go to, to skirt the checks and laws turns up on our evening news. The current scandal in NSW being case in point.

But what can be done about this when those who benefit from the system, control the rules?
It's surprising what a thousand letters to a politician can accomplish. But getting a thousand individuals to write those letters is nigh on impossible.
We get the government we vote for.

*Citizens United was a group of mostly corporates and corporate backed individuals set up to fight for the “rights” of corporations to donate money to political campaigns. The name is a spectacular success of deceptive marketing.

Edited by cscotthendry
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Hmmm... so far we have no actual evidence of Trump committing a crime in relation to his personal income tax.

 

Trump likely has little personal income to be taxed. Any tax payable likely came out of his company’s.

 

Seems all Trump did before his current job were traveling around in his jet doing business. All business expenses in the USA are tax deductible as far as I know.

 

I await any actual evidence of Trump committing a tax crime.....

 

 

 

 

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@SplitS - this is a very good point..  And I can't remember the numbers, but the number of bombs he has dropped is less than half of the total that Obama dropped during his tenure, so by extrapolation assuming a second term, he will have droped less in existing conflicts than Obama dropped in both existing and new conflicts. My son keeps telling me that Obama has authorised many drone strikes that have taken out may thousands of innocent civvies as collateral damage and then used the excuse thaty the strikes were necessary to save thousands of lives. I haven't double checked, and even if I did, I would be happy to be corrected. Apparently, DT has authorised a handful of similar strikes and collateral damage has been much less. Of course, it could be because drone and weapons tech has moved on... but...

 

But, and I admit, without the facts and only playing devils advocate, could his inaction had cost more lives? He withdrew troops from Syria and that has since escalated with a higher rate of civvie losses than before. It was also seen as a betrayal of the Kurds - assumed to be supported by the US to be left alone against a far mightier foe. OK, Obama may have started it, but the US started it.. so they should have supported it until its conclusion.

 

While not diminishing the importance of any life lost - allied or or other, allied losses tend to be restricted compared to others in such wars of late, and given the USA's position in the "free" (aka Western) world, and the leadership role they assume, are they justified in pulling out. Also, has there been new conflicts that have started, or have existing ones just kept rolling on? BTW, that is not to say his predecesors were saints.. Far from it. I can't speak to Obama, but G-double-ya and Tony Blair went into Iraq totally unjustified and in my opinon, both should be tried at the Hague - they may or may not be guilty - but justice does require a formal hearing.  And the shennanigans at Guantanomo Bay has to be investigated - as a collective, we are better than the allegations. And, of course, Gulf War 1 was not about coming to an ally's defence, but defending the flow of oil.. We know that.

 

 

I have always said DT has done some good things. Some have said a clock says the right time twice a day, but on reflection, that analogy is not appropriate - the clock has stopped working; DT continues to work. He got Kim Jon Ng talkiing (ultimatley, it failed, but at least provided a sliver of hope), he has got the NATO countries investing in defence at the levels they should, he has brokered (probably with his aides) a significant middle east peace deal. OK, some say it is symbolic, but one should not underestimate the significance of the Saudis allowing an El Al passenger carrying flight through their airspace nor the UAE allowing them to land (and presumably providing the appropriate level of security) in their country. Of course, if I were Israel, I would be thinking are they being lulled into a false sense of security - especially given their leader - but DT can take credit for pulling a rabbit out of the hat.

 

Unfortunately, he has too many other policy directions and actions which more than cancel it out. Climate change, domestic division, open racism, cronyism, rigging the postal service to frustrate postal votets (so, corruption), and the list goes on. He has a disposition which grates a lot of people and his command of communication is not great - and while we would expect a press to see through that, unfortunatley, it doesn't. The big concern is he undermines democracy and the rule of law in his own country. The US is polarsied as is the western world... His denial of science and although I will not say the 220K deaths are all his fault, as a leader and steppingin fron (has he proclaims), the steps he has led his population through seem to be the wrong ones - on  many counts. |There has been no new skirmish/war for him to deal with.. Maybe he has bullied all minor countured into submission (and maybe not).. If one does flare up while he is in power, it will be interesting to see how he does.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

Hmmm... so far we have no actual evidence of Trump committing a crime in relation to his personal income tax.

 

Trump likely has little personal income to be taxed. Any tax payable likely came out of his company’s.

 

Seems all Trump did before his current job were traveling around in his jet doing business. All business expenses in the USA are tax deductible as far as I know.

 

I await any actual evidence of Trump committing a tax crime.....

 

First sentence - agree.. No evidence (yet).. IRS still investigating.

 

Sentences 2 and 3.. I am not sure if you have operated as a company before, but even in the USA, you cannot treat your company revenue as your personal income. You can either a) pay yourself a salary (with appropriate taxes, social security, ambo, fire service, medicare (US) and other deductions), or take your personal spend as dividends and by taking into account the equivalent of Franking Credits, deduct the similar tax from those dividends as you would if you were employed by your company (see above taxes and other typical US deductions).. A company in the US cannot cover personal expenses any more than a company in Aus without the person for whom those expenses are covered paying appropriate tax and other social charges (e.g. super/401K).

 

Using your business jet travelling example: If he was able to meet his mate, Vlad, at Mar-i-lago (or whatever it is called) for a "business meeting", then yes, it could be expensed through the company. Under US IRS law though (much like Aussie tax law), if it was deemed only a portion of the trip (e.g. DT met Vlad for a day but stayed for two weeks), then a portion of the flight, hotel, food, etc would be deemed personal and he would have to pay tax as personal income for the proprotional cost of the flight, hotel, food and any other entertainment. As he owns the resort, you may think that because the room and food/booze that he was given rather than having to pay for would not have to be taxed. Er.. no.. Fringe Benefits Tax is also payable in the US (where do you think we got it from?).  Of course, I am simplifying this somewhat, because, no doubt, there will be low tax country ownership and other rorts that governments allow uber-wealthy people (or those that purport to be uber-wealthy) to help minimise the amount of tax they have to pay. My point is, just because the business pays for something does not mean it is a legitimate business expense which can be deducted from revenue/income for tax purposes. Simply, your assertions in those sentences are flawed (or do not contain enough clarification to be valid).

 

Sentence 4 - you and me and the rest of the interested world both (gramatically incorrect, but you get my drift).

Edited by Jerry_Atrick
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27 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

you and me and the rest of the interested world both (gramatically incorrect,

:busted:

Grammar Police:

I believe that, in the light of current usage, this phrase is acceptable, if one concedes that the verb "to agree" in the First Person Plural form is inferred by the context.

 

32 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

there will be low tax country ownership and other rorts that governments allow

Now there's a point! Where are the Trump companies registered? Cayman Islands?

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Okay, I admit that it was my bad to slip this off topic onto the forum under the cover of our Sully's utter contempt for Trump.

But for those of our aviator mates who find Captain Sullenberger too much of a lefty to be taken seriously on the present President, how about General John Kelly - as natural a right winger, of a certain age, as you'd ever find.  He has finally come out saying that Trump is the most flawed human being he's ever met.  He calls him 'pathetic' with an 'astounding depth of dishonesty'. 

 

 

 

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SplitS - In the position where there's a blank space for Wars started by Donald Trump, you can put - "American Civil War #2".

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Somebody mentioned Brietback news. I look at it quite often and find it interesting. It is blatantly pro Trump and reading the comments from readers, who are all madly pro Trump is like reading a poison pen letter. It just shows what the mentality of trump suppoerters is like. It is really frightening to think that they can vote.

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For anyone still interested, this new CNN clip picks up on (among other things) the Breitbart story quoted above (The directly relevant part is in the first minute or so):

 

 

 

Edited by Garfly
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5 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

... could his inaction had cost more lives? He withdrew troops from Syria and that has since escalated with a higher rate of civvie losses than before. It was also seen as a betrayal of the Kurds - assumed to be supported by the US to be left alone against a far mightier foe...

Good point, Jerry. A bit like the little old lady driver who can claim she has never had an accident- but has caused plenty.

The long term effects of any President’s actions won’t be clear for years. Who knows what massive conflict Obama may have forestalled?  Who knows what future war will result from Trump’s withdrawal from the Middle East and betrayal of the Kurds. We are already seeing smaller powers moving into the vacuum left by departing US forces. Turkish involvement in Libya and the Horn of Africa is just one result of Trump signaling that the US is no longer interested.

 

Trump’s recent peace deals with Israel sound too much like Neville Chamberlain’s “peace with honor” deal with Hitler which sold out the Czechs but did nothing to stop the expansion of Nazi Germany. 
This time it’s the long-suffering Palestinians who got sold out. I doubt that will make real peace any more likely.

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https://cdn.swisscows.ch//https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-E_PMz_76IR4/WiS5TiXR28I/AAAAAAAAUDw/LRykidE8MzgICO7VdRk_wZFT1Q5xkvjswCLcBGAs/s1600/gad115.jpg

The USA has no place being the worlds police. The lives lost/destroyed by USA incursions from the Iraq invasion, Syria (one of the few democratically elected Arab county's), Libya who now have slave auctions  etc is way worse than letting them be.  

Trump has his faults but I forgive everything else because at the end of the day He is a dove and wants peace.

The other side wants to blow shit up and cannot figure out which toilet they should use.

Trump has his faults but the other side is insane.

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5 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

Hmmm... so far we have no actual evidence of Trump committing a crime in relation to his personal income tax.

 

Trump likely has little personal income to be taxed. Any tax payable likely came out of his company’s.

 

Seems all Trump did before his current job were traveling around in his jet doing business. All business expenses in the USA are tax deductible as far as I know.

 

I await any actual evidence of Trump committing a tax crime.....

 

 

 

 

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Michael Cohen laid out several crimes in front of the impeachment investigation. As for there not being any evidence ... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and when we witness the extraordinary lengths Trump and the Republicans have gone to, to prevent ANY examination of his finances, it begs the question "why?".

I don't know if he'll be charged for tax violations, but there are a multitude of other offences he has committed while in office and in the run up.

 

Campaign finance violations: Payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal for a start. Then there's the mystery of the sudden $10 million in unaccountable funds that went into his 2016 campaign just before the election. Then there's the money he bragged about having LOTS of early on in this campaign, on the order of hundreds of millions, but now he claims his campaign is broke???

 

Emoluments clause of the Constitution: The constitution prohibits a sitting POTUS from receiving money from foreign entities and governments by any means. It's why presidents have always put their business interests at "arms length" during their terms in the presidency. Trump has steadfastly refused to do this and daily benefits from dignitaries and government officials staying in his resorts. He even tried to get the G7 meeting held at one of his resorts. He also tried to pressure the UK government to move the British Open golf tournament to his one of golf courses.

 

Extortion: Trump tried to use foreign aid payments to an allied nation (Ukraine) as leverage to induce that government to create a smear against his main political rival. That he didn't succeed doesn't erase the crime. The attempt was a crime in and of itself.

 

Possible espionage: Early on in his presidency, Trump divulged sensitive intelligence sourced from the Israelis, to Russian agents. This intelligence put the lives of soldiers and friendly agents in jeopardy and the Israelis were thoroughly pissed.

 

During the 2016 campaign, Trump's campaign officials were in constant contact with Russian government agents. That is what started the Mueller investigation. Obama didn't start the investigation, the counter-intelligence unit of the FBI did that on their own because of the communications they were seeing between Trump's campaign people and the Russians. What we now know for sure is that NOTHING happens in Trump's orbit without Trump's knowledge and approval. Anything that does happen without his approval is grounds for instant dismissal, right down to not kissing Trump's orange arse enough.

 

Crimes against humanity: So far 220,000 Americans have died from COVID 19. Trump was warned in February that the pandemic would be bad and Obama had left him a team and a plan to deal with such matters. Trump chose to a) Do nothing about it because he thought it would hinder the economy and hurt his reelection prospects, b) Warn investor friends who sold stock like the world was about to end, thereby avoiding losses (insider trading), c) actively subverting efforts to contain the spread of the virus by disbanding the team and ignoring the plans while hindering efforts to test for it and provide PPE for healthcare staff and patients. As a result, official SCIENTIFIC estimates are that nearly half of the deaths from the virus could have been prevented had he done what a president is supposed to do. He STILL refuses to wear a mask and holds super spreader rallies because he is narcissistic and craves the attention.

 

This is only what we know for a fact now. Given the pathological dishonesty of Trump, I believe this is only the tiny tip of a very large iceberg and that it is why he's so protective of his finances.

 

And finally, what we do know is that Trump is in debt to the tune of $421 million to "someone" but we don't know who. My bet is the Russians and the Saudis. That kind of debt is an instant dis-qualifier for anyone to obtain any type of security clearance at all, never mind having the nuclear launch codes.

 

That is all apart from the nepotism, corruption, lies and malfeasance that has passed for his presidency.

 

OK, Rant over.

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