skippydiesel Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 I still like and use my WAC's - not sure how many pilots out the can still be bothered with them. When I commit a prospective plan to my charts, it helps me visualise the whole flight, get it into perspective as it were. The iPad is great but it just doesn't have the power to "transport" me. One little problem - back in the day you could order your WAC's with a flexible matt plastic finish, that would allow the good old chinagraph pencil to take and be removed with an eraser and made the paper WAC more durable into the bargain - what ever happened to this service.? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 Memories.... Going back to the 1970s/80s when I flew, we used clear matt Contact to cover the charts. I probably have some old ones in the garage. You would peel the backing paper off the contact and press it onto the chart. I don't know if it's still available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase T Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 Have a full and current set not all the "pencil in" notams have been done though... Love htem, but I ma the sort of guy that loves to look at maps anyway. I am even reasonable good at folding them for use in flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase T Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 Have a full and current set not all the "pencil in" notams have been done though... Love htem, but I ma the sort of guy that loves to look at maps anyway. I am even reasonable good at folding them for use in flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 I rarely use paper charts, but buy new ones every few years as they become tatty and out of date. Not as cheap as they once were, but nice to have when (not if) the flashy new nav screen lets me down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 On 24/12/2020 at 10:25 PM, skippydiesel said: I still like and use my WAC's - not sure how many pilots out the can still be bothered with them. When I commit a prospective plan to my charts, it helps me visualise the whole flight, get it into perspective as it were. The iPad is great but it just doesn't have the power to "transport" me. One little problem - back in the day you could order your WAC's with a flexible matt plastic finish, that would allow the good old chinagraph pencil to take and be removed with an eraser and made the paper WAC more durable into the bargain - what ever happened to this service.? One of the things I've noticed over time is that newer pilots seem to have gravitated into straight-line navigation due to using GPS and the associated software. The first thing people think of when they start to fly is that they can fly in a straight line when they travel from A to B compared with the same trip by car, so that's about as far as their navigation skills go. You read about how they hit a head wind, ran low on fuel nd had to turn back, or how they want the ceiling raised in various locations because they have to ly too low, or they ask a question on here about "the best way" from one location to another, or for long trips. A Navgiator with a Flight Computer is free of having to do that. He has the power to input the speed and direction of wind, and compute True Air Speed for various routes. Surprisingly a longer route, less directly into wind proves to be faster, so burns less fuel. This particularly applies if you can take advantage of one long leg with a downwind component. So working on the WAC chart can give you several options you don't have trying to work it out in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 While I agree that WAC charts are good and I still use them I don't know of anything that you can do with a WAC chart that you cannot do with Avplan or Oz Runways. Once you are proficient with the electronic aids it becomes much easier to change your flight in the air. You also have the problem that WAC Charts do not give you all the info you need. You have to go elsewhwere for radio frequencies and what areas they are used in. My home field is not marked on the WAC chart, but the property it is on is named, and airservices in their wisdom have called the strip something else, which is not mentioned on the WAC. For most flying around the populated areas of Australia the VEC is a better chart to use. It took a lot of lobbying for several years to get the VEC charts for north of Brisbane published. When those charts came out originally they showed them covering right up to Cairns, but North of Brisbane as not published for years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Yenn said: ...For most flying around the populated areas of Australia the VEC is a better chart to use. It took a lot of lobbying for several years to get the VEC charts for north of Brisbane published. When those charts came out originally they showed them covering right up to Cairns, but North of Brisbane as not published for years. Haven’t come across VEC charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Old Koreelah said: Haven’t come across VEC charts. WAC World Aeronautical Charts are good for topography and landmarks like wheat silos etc VEC Visual Enroute Charts clarify a lot of facts during the trip, making it a lot easier. VTC Visual Terminal Charts clarify the situation around larger facilities, particularly in cities, give close up landmarks you can use, Danger areas (D315 etc) VEC and VTC would make your planning a lot easier. You don't have to fly all charts or all Ozrunways; as I mentioned before, if you use the wind to your advantage you can choose safer, faster routes without battling along in a straight line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsefeathers Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Should VEC actually be VNC?? Cause you can get En route charts - low, and En Route Charts - high 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Hey they've taken silos off the WAC charts ! Now only on VNCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase T Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 2 hours ago, turboplanner said: VEC Visual Enroute Charts clarify a lot of facts during the trip, making it a lot easier. pssst they are VNC's these days.. Haven't been VEC's for a very very long time you are showing your age (and possibly a military background??) there. VEC's are from way back when the VFG came in a lovely orange folder and you could go full reporting VFR..... 2 hours ago, turboplanner said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 The last VEC's were produced in 1992, according to the National Library of Australia - which institution holds an incomplete set, as a historical interest item. I think you'd be taking a risk, relying on 1992 charts for serious flying information. https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/2045315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, onetrack said: The last VEC's were produced in 1992, according to the National Library of Australia - which institution holds an incomplete set, as a historical interest item. I think you'd be taking a risk, relying on 1992 charts for serious flying information. https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/2045315 Just adapt to the VNC name; that's what CASA will supply. Edited December 26, 2020 by turboplanner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 the silos have been removed from the WAC and are on VNCs sure, but VNCs cover only a very small part of the country... I have sent a message a couple of weeks ago to the printer. Maybe they left a layer off..... Silos are great to visual nav of, especially in western NSW where there isnt much else. Gather is the same in other grain districts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 2 hours ago, RFguy said: the silos have been removed from the WAC and are on VNCs sure, but VNCs cover only a very small part of the country... I have sent a message a couple of weeks ago to the printer. Maybe they left a layer off..... Silos are great to visual nav of, especially in western NSW where there isnt much else. Gather is the same in other grain districts. Yes, particularly out west where the land has less feautures, and they are almost in a continuous chain where you either go over one or see the next, or only have to wait a few minutes for the next. The fences in NSW are also roughly N-S. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 hour ago, turboplanner said: ...The fences in NSW are also roughly N-S. Pretty much Mag N-S, as it was when surveyed in the 1830s. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 On 26/12/2020 at 2:52 AM, turboplanner said: One of the things I've noticed over time is that newer pilots seem to have gravitated into straight-line navigation due to using GPS and the associated software. I'm surprised you've seen new pilots doing that, since with EFBs, dragging your course line around to avoid any kind of obstruction or restriction or weather (forecast or real time) couldn't be easier. Plus, having your planned route easily show up on every type of chart means that all classes of obstruction are all the easier to spot. And with the help of your wind-adjusted plan sheet - and/or Windy - choosing route and level is heaps easier than in days of yore. So I can't say I've noticed new pilots being seduced into planning-direct by their devices. For years after GPS came in you'd hear apocryphal tales of that stupid new pilot who'd simply press GoTo on his GPS regardless of due considerations, and so get into all kinds of strife. I can't say I ever met a pilot who'd do that, but anyway, it ain't right comparing the stupidest of early adopters with the wisest of wait and see types. (Nor the other way around 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase T Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 On 27/12/2020 at 6:09 AM, RFguy said: the silos have been removed from the WAC and are on VNCs sure, but VNCs cover only a very small part of the country... I have sent a message a couple of weeks ago to the printer. Maybe they left a layer off..... Silos are great to visual nav of, especially in western NSW where there isnt much else. Gather is the same in other grain districts. This is going to make "A visual fix every 30 mins" quite difficult to achieve in some areas!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 The WAC's the only format showing hypsometric tints and spot heights which is more useful in mountainous areas. Power lines are a help and positively identifiable Rivers, railways and roads. The WAC is based on Lamberts conformal orthomorphic PROJECTION using a set of (latitude) parallels but the exact scale of co joining borders may not perfectly align from map to map.... A straight line drawn on it is close to a great circle which in reality can only be totally correct on a sphere . The earth is actually an oblate spheroid as its bigger around the equator to be completely correct. . Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase T Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 The title of this thread annoys the pedant in me. This is a WAC chart I.e. a chart of the WAC’s. The individual ones are World Aeronautical Charts or WAC’s .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 THAT only shows the arrangement of the WAC's incorporating Brisbane as an identifier. You order your charts by the number shown and you can determine what charts cover which tracks or which ones border the one you have. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase T Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, facthunter said: THAT only shows the arrangement of the WAC's incorporating Brisbane as an identifier. You order your charts by the number shown and you can determine what charts cover which tracks or which ones border the one you have. Nev I am trying to stay its a WAC chart... In that it is a chart of all the WAC's... Thats the only true WAC Chart.... Its like an ATM Machine.. That can only be a machine that makes ATM's... A WAC chart can only be a chart of the WAC's... It's like when someone says "Turning Finals or on finals" I always wonder how many of them there are? Edited December 28, 2020 by Jase T 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 It doesn't hurt to be precise, I'll admit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) Maybe you excel at cryptic crosswords. I certainly don't. ALL the WAC's would be of the whole world. This GROUP just happens to cover all of Australia. which is an Island, Plus the little island, for convenience. It's mainly for the ease of purchasing whatever WAC's YOU need for your purposes at the time . It's also showing the ones "WE" are responsible for updating.. Cocos and Christmas may also be in that group but not a lot of us "drop in" there. WAC 3340 Brisbane is the title if you want THAT particular one Like a PIN Number which should more correctly be a PI Number they should be WA Charts , rather than world aeronautical chart, charts. Do you have an ASIC? It already has a card in it. Turning finals???? When was that ever appropriate? Nev Edited December 28, 2020 by facthunter expand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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