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Just seen an advertisement for portable CO detectors, supplied through RAA. I guess being a dedicated aircraft supplier, it must be something extra special  hence the cost - $80 

 

Something very similar (suit all recreational vehicles/boats etc and your home) can be had from Bunnings Aerospace, and a range of other stores, for less than half this price.

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They are superior to anything Bunnings sell. Plus compact, digital readout of co level, different alarms. I paid more than RAA ask for the same thing.  The item is a good addition to the cockpit over the card ones, even the long life card detectors that are towards $30.  RAA price is very fair. I recommend then.

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Maaate! if spending big bucks makes a tool/instrument better - go for it.

 

My Bunnings Aerospace (can get from a lot of other suppliers), about the size of my small hand,  digital read out, is a self contained (replaceable batteries last at least 18 months ), CO alarm (sound & visual) that records  max PPM, that you can recall. Placed it near the floor of my foot well (CO being heavier than air) in a relatively draft free location. From memory, cost $32.

 

Soooooo much better than one of those short lived CO patches and seems to do pretty much all I would want and more (bought a couple for the house and one for the kids caravan).

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The CO patches are working all the time, so have to be checked during pre-flight, and replaced regularly as routing maintenance. If you've got an battery-powered device, you only have to include turning it on and off in your pre- and post-flight checklist. 

10 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Placed it near the floor of my foot well (CO being heavier than air) in a relatively draft free location

Good point. You can do that with a device that sound an alarm. Look where the patches are put - on the instrument panel, above the level of greatest CO concentration. 

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The lower cost CO sensors are actually sensitive to MULTIPLE gases

But they are pretty much all gases produced from combustion, so no harm done.

 

My appraisal of 4 different devices revealed the CO  only sensitive detector consistently produced a reading of half the  multi-gas detector .

from 20ppm up to 600 ppm.

So, I consuder the $45 CO detectors (multi gas detectors) "fit for purpose"  

-glen

 

 

 

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CO is the problem we wish to respond to, Isn't it? CO2 only affects you by exclusion/displacement and requires high concentrations to be a problem. The "purpose" is to detect CO at dangerous levels. IT affects the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood. Nev

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17 minutes ago, mkennard said:

I use both actually all three. I have the card, the bunnings cheapo and the RAAUS. What can go wrong?

You reach mtow with all the safety equipment before you fill the tanks???

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this is the one I bought that I liked the most.
Note- ideally, a room CO detector should be an aspirating type, but in an aircraft there is using enough air movement to enough the sensor gets hit

-glen

 





 

CO.jpg

Edited by RFguy
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They look a good unit I see they trigger alarm at 24 ppm in less than 60 secs.  The Quell units would need testing and doing a comparison and meet a standard that is at 50ppm alarm in 60 to 90 minutes, so may be pretty ordinary performance. Not that 50ppm will kill you just start to affect you.  I like the compactness of mine.  It’s interesting to see the number rise to about 14 on a fast decent. Usually about10ppm on reduced power decent.  I’ll alter my exhaust pipes more down to get the exhaust into the air flow.  I’ll check my specs in the manual when out at hangar next. Working OT this weekend and wiring a boat so no time to call out there soon.  If I didn’t purchase the oneI have I’d get the one you show.  A mate has the Quell one and has purchased the one that RAA sell.  Cheers

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that one shows 2 x what the CO gas only $$$ one shows.  always from low to high concenrations.

That's pretty good.  I can personally vouch for it. 

As usual, they all have about 100 second startup time. 

 

The Quell one I understand from my reading is a multi gas sensor also.  

 

with a fault condition in an aircraft I have seen it reading over 700 ! ... but the gas concoction was also stinging my eyes !

Edited by RFguy
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RFg - start up time? Mine stays on all the time. Never turn it off. Battery life is extraordinary. I check PPM history every now and again - rarely shows anything very much. Well sealed cockpit with good fresh air (when required) and quite long exhaust seem to do the trick - never any exhaust fumes.

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I have a Canadian-built CO monitor built into my panel and, like Skippy’s, it runs continuously. Even so, the 9v battery lasts a few years. This discussion has reminded me that my monitor had a stated life of only 3 years or so, and it’s been beavering away for at least ten. I guess I can afford a new one, but I couldn’t find anything on the RAA site; which section? Any help appreciated.

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be aware - the ones that run for years continuously generally sample once per 10 to 30  minutes (On for 1 minute, stabilize, take reading, then go to sleep for 10-30 minutes) 

 

They're not like an ionization smoke detector that by its design consumes little power. 

 

Once it detects CO in one of the sleep cycles, it will stay on for a while giving faster updates, then if there is nothing interesting going on, it will go back to sleep.

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I tried out my Bunnings type detector by holding it near the car exhaust. Sure enough, it emitted a shrill noise and indicated co. It is a bit too big for the panel tho so it was mounted on the fuse upper rhs above the fuel tank. I was going to run a power cable to it but apparently the batteries last a long time and so this probably will not happen. I think it was cheaper than Bunnings on Ebay.

Old K, how about trying your detector out by using car exhaust?

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This one cost $16.00 on Ebay & works really well. It takes 2 x AAA batteries and has a piercing alarm 85dB at 1 metre. To test the alarm just press the speaker for 1 second.  It is small & compact & I have velcoed it on to the panel. A green LED flashes every 30 seconds to indicate it is working & this turns red when CO is detected. The LED screen starts displaying at 30ppm & the alarm will go off in 60-90 minutes at 50ppm, 10-40 minutes at 100ppm & within 3 minutes at 300ppm. I do get low CO contamination of about 40-60ppm when at full power climbing out for a couple of minutes, then it goes off when I level out & reduce power.

s-l1600.jpg

 

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right,  it is cheap but it is NOT a real time device....

 

not useful fault finding with that sort of slllooowww response time  for low level...

suggest the one I got.

3 x AAA batteries, will last about 12 hours.. maybe 20.

 

 

 

 

 

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The LED screen is instant. Why make a screaming noise when the level is so low it is not harmful. Under 50ppm is considered safe. CO is found in normal households at about 18ppm but increases when there is combustion like gas stoves etc.

 

Occupational  rules now state that the level should not exceed 30ppm for 8 hours continuously to be considered a safe working environment. You should not be exposed to 70- 150ppm for more that 4 hours. The chart below shows exposure times.

 

Carbon monoxide dangers in the boiler room | 2015-10-23 | Plumbing &  Mechanical

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well I know that from a flying POV,  300ppm is really bad  from experience, and 100ppm is problematic.

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Unfortunately, as with all biologically established limits, the levels KG has shown are averages. Each person could respond differently. Keeping 50 ppm as an allowable maximum, each person should monitor their own responses to CO to see at what level they start to notice deterioration in their well being.

 

Absorbed carbon monoxide is eliminated from the body by exhalation and oxidative metabolism. Oxidative metabolism of carbon monoxide has been estimated to be a relatively small fraction (<10%) of endogenous carbon monoxide elimination. Under most conditions, the dominant route of elimination of absorbed carbon monoxide is exhalation. The decline in blood %COHb following cessation of an inhalation exposure to carbon monoxide exhibits at least two kinetic phases. The fast phase is thought to reflect a combination of exhalation of carbon monoxide along with slower distribution of blood carbon monoxide to tissues that continues after cessation of exposure. The elimination half-time for the slow phase is approximately 100–300 minutes. That means that a person will still have half the inhaled CO in their system from 2 to six hours after exposure ends. 

 

Apart from the CO combining with haemoglobin to reduce the amount of oxygen that cold be carried in the blood, CO is not a cumulative poison like lead or mercury. It is eliminated if the blood is not overloaded. However, if a person is exposed constantly to CO at higher levels, the body will acclimatise to those levels. In the operation of an aircraft,  the exposure to CO is not constant and long-term enough to allow acclimatization.

 

Here's an interesting article on unnoticed CO poisoning. The title sounds all scientific, but the article is written is a style suitable for a magazine article.

https://www.karger.com/Article/PDF/24630#:~:text=Carbon monoxide is not a,sequelae of severe acute exposure.

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Got very sick from it many years ago,  a massive headache that I thought I was gonna die and vomiting etc.

finished up in hospital for a day........and took a week to totally get over it.

i am now paranoid about it.......

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The one RAA are promoting is ridiculously oversensitive IMO. It starts detecting at 9ppm which is less than normal household levels. Then from 9-24ppm Alarm level 1 activates after 1 minute (30ppm is considered a safe working environment). 25 to 49 is Alarm level 2 which activates after 1 minute. (50ppm is considered normal exposure for up to 8 hours). The highest level is Alarm level 3 which is 50ppm or more and the alarm sounds continuously & the red light flashes continuously.

 

All this does is make you paranoid about CO that is not dangerous until you get to 2-300ppm & even then you have to be exposed for 2-3 hours for any noticeable issues and after the exposure has gone you return to normal rapidly with no after effects.

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