Jump to content

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, jackc said:

They probably should be cheap......after a possible Flying School flogging......?

Couldn't agree more - Aircraft "on line" with flying schools get worked hard.

 

For the hours recorded, they do incredible number of start, take-off & landing cycles - think of all that wear and tear on almost every little bit - even things like switches - yep! replaceable but all those "little" items add up to a potentially expensive acquisition.

 

If you dont buy cheap, your an auctioneers fantasy and of questionable sense.

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 66
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Pickles technique is all about maximising the return to them and the vendor. They set a figure they believe the item is worth (often way out, because their valuers are not that expert), and they call

Receivers don't nessasarily accept the best price on an asset more the most convenient offer.   I can recall when great southern plantations managed investment scheme collapsed. Prime grazin

"In their dreams" - just check out the current/recent offerings in the variose on line market places

Posted Images

Pickles are dreaming or they think they are selling to gullible idiots but sometimes these exist. I've been to real auctions for cars where a couple of bidders raise the price well beyond what they originally wanted to pay by getting caught up in the process. I've bought stuff at live auctions including 2 houses and also sold houses by auction & the bidding process works fairly much the same as described by OT except that when you are the highest and the reserve has not been met they halt the auction & have a yarn to the seller then come back to you to try to get you to increase your offer if the seller won't budge. If you say no then they will then restart the auction and call for more bids. If none come it is passed in & negotiations begin between you & the seller & their auctioneer.

 

They can also be unscrupulous and say there is another bid higher than yours and begin the auction with an auctioneers bid (but not announcing it as such which is not legal) to try & get you to go up. This happened to me when bidding on a house but I didn't take the bait & walked out only to be chased down the road by one of the auctioneers staff to ask if I'd be interested in negotiating. I really liked the property but had set my price so said no & as I drove home kept kicking myself for not going that little bit extra to secure it. A few hours later I got a call from the agent saying the owner had agreed to my price. All they were thinking of was their commission & browbeat the seller into accepting. Make no mistake Auctioneers are interested in only one thing, themselves.

 

I have never had to pay a buyers premium even on line but that seems to be an increasing trend so you have to factor that in when bidding. It's an absolute ripoff in my opinion & I won't even participate if that is part of the process. We recently needed a mower for the airfield & there were several offered through Grays Online & gave them a miss due to the high sellers and buyers commissions plus GST on the whole lot. Bought one privately from another airfield and I reckon we saved heaps. 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

Pickles are dreaming or they think they are selling to gullible idiots but sometimes these exist. I've been to real auctions for cars where a couple of bidders raise the price well beyond what they originally wanted to pay by getting caught up in the process. I've bought stuff at live auctions including 2 houses and also sold houses by auction & the bidding process works fairly much the same as described by OT except that when you are the highest and the reserve has not been met they halt the auction & have a yarn to the seller then come back to you to try to get you to increase your offer if the seller won't budge. If you say no then they will then restart the auction and call for more bids. If none come it is passed in & negotiations begin between you & the seller & their auctioneer.

 

They can also be unscrupulous and say there is another bid higher than yours and begin the auction with an auctioneers bid (but not announcing it as such which is not legal) to try & get you to go up. This happened to me when bidding on a house but I didn't take the bait & walked out only to be chased down the road by one of the auctioneers staff to ask if I'd be interested in negotiating. I really liked the property but had set my price so said no & as I drove home kept kicking myself for not going that little bit extra to secure it. A few hours later I got a call from the agent saying the owner had agreed to my price. All they were thinking of was their commission & browbeat the seller into accepting. Make no mistake Auctioneers are interested in only one thing, themselves.

 

I have never had to pay a buyers premium even on line but that seems to be an increasing trend so you have to factor that in when bidding. It's an absolute ripoff in my opinion & I won't even participate if that is part of the process. We recently needed a mower for the airfield & there were several offered through Grays Online & gave them a miss due to the high sellers and buyers commissions plus GST on the whole lot. Bought one privately from another airfield and I reckon we saved heaps. 

I agree - ALWAYS know your max price befor you start bidding NEVER go that little bit more,   likely you will regret going there.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Panorama said:

Receivers don't nessasarily accept the best price on an asset more the most convenient offer.

Quite true. The job of the liquidator is to recover the most money to repay outstanding debt, as soon as possible. We forget that as soon as a Judgement is made, interest on the debt begins to come due.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/02/2021 at 9:53 PM, onetrack said:

Jack, if you take a look at the link to the Pickles auction put up by Petercoota, you will see the following inspection information;

 

Inspection: Moorabbin: Monday, 1 March 2021 from 10:00am until 4:00pm
Bankstown: Friday, 26 February 2021 from 10:00am until 4:00pm

 

On inspection days, you are allowed to wander through all the items listed for auction and inspect them without starting them or unscrewing panels. If a panel is easily removable and replaceable with hand-operated clips or fasteners, you would more than likely be allowed to remove those panels for inspection - provided they were replaced correctly and securely.

 

However, a call to the Pickles representative who is in charge of that particular auction inspection will soon clarify what is allowed in the inspection process.

Naturally, starting engines would not be allowed, and I doubt whether access to the cockpit (sitting in it) would be allowed, either.

Hi folks!

 

Out of interest are there any legal implications to the sale of aircraft where the seller does not allow inspection for airworthiness as part of the sale? Will logs/ maintenance releases be available for inspection by buyers? Or is the situation exactly the same as buying an old used car unseen, and the expectation it will probably drop its guts on the freeway on your drive home? 

 

Cheers

 

 Alan 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, NT5224 said:

are there any legal implications

Caveat emptor would be the answer to that one.

 

I doubt if any legislation which sets rules for the operation of aircraft or qualifications of pilots would involve itself in a civil contract involving the exchange of title to goods. All the regulations would say is that if you gain title to an aircraft, and want to fly it, then you must advise the authority of the name and contact details of the owner. If you wanted to buy a plane and make a static display of it, you would not have to tell the authorities.

 

If Pickles are selling the planes, I think that you will find in their Ts&Cs that logbooks are available for inspection. I'm sure that someone has said that already.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The sale description is pretty clear .....

 

QUOTE:  "Military aircraft are not registered with CASA and are being sold on an 'As Is, Where Is' basis, with no CoA, CoR or MR. All maintenance logged in CAMM2. CAMM2 data support unavailable after purchase."

 

https://www.pickles.com.au/trucks/item/-/details/01-1991-Pilatus-Aircraft-Ltd--Hawker-De-Havilland-PC-9-License--Model--PC-9-A-Turboprop-Serial-No--544/1020118638

 

The live link to the aircraft full T's & C's of sale, is not working yet. I'd say this link will become live about a day before the auction start time (on the 12th March).

 

Edited by onetrack
Link to post
Share on other sites

CAMM = Computer-Aided Maintenance Management system. I don't know where the "2" came from. Maybe CAMM1 was a flop, and they had to re-work it, to produce CAMM2.

 

https://www.afr.com/companies/manufacturing/raaf-flies-high-on-groundwork-19960906-k74xx#:~:text=The RAAF's secret support weapon,for Australia's frontline aerial defences.

Link to post
Share on other sites

SO

If all the pertinent information is on that program we  cannot get access to CoA CoR or any attachment. 

AFTER we pay our money.

Am l right here ?.

spacesailor

Link to post
Share on other sites

Spacey, you got it right. "As-is, Where-is" means you pay your money, and you take your chances, just like Alans used car, "dropping its guts", analogy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

With no maintenance history can they ever be registered with CASA or are you buying a collection of parts?

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/default/files/_assets/main/rules/1998casr/021/advisory-circular-21-02-standard-certificates-airworthiness.pdf

 

image.thumb.png.266a20d30679d0af61995fbc7de04537.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 24/02/2021 at 11:38 PM, spacesailor said:

SO

If all the pertinent information is on that program we  cannot get access to CoA CoR or any attachment. 

AFTER we pay our money.

Am l right here ?.

spacesailor

Well i dropped in to the viewing this arvo and was told all paperwork was available for perusal.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Roscoe said:

Well i dropped in to the viewing this arvo and was told all paperwork was available for perusal.

Anything you buy would be a down grade from your J170.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There were at least 15 Aircraft there, they presented very well.

All had full glass instrumentation, all were polished up to a mirror shine.

Foxbats, Bristells, Tecnams,, Aquila, and a Tecnam Twin.

Interestingly, at 2pm I was the only tyre kicker in attendance

  • Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Roscoe said:

Interestingly, at 2pm I was the only tyre kicker in attendance

Did you happen to ask if the aircraft has Reserve prices on them?

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Did you happen to ask if the aircraft has Reserve prices on them?

No sorry.

The Pickles bloke in charge is GAVIN and you could contact him on the Pickles website aviation section.

He was taking phone calls while i was there and didnt get a chance to speak to him

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if it helps anyone here, but I enquired of SOAR directly in August 2020.

Below is what I was told.   Note: I thought they were over-priced and bought elsewhere.
 

Aeroprakt A22LS Foxbat details

 

Rego

S/No

YOM

TTIS(Hrs)

 

MELBOURNE: Moorabbin

 

23-8842

307

2017

1,095.4

A$ 72,000

23-8843

309

2017

900.8

A$ 74,950

24-8245

150

2012

1,519.6

A$ 59,950

24-8716

254

2016

892.1

A$ 72,950

NOTE: All SOAR aircraft maintenance is subcontracted to the Full Throttle Aviation in Moorabbin"

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

the 912s seem to be mostly mid life.  probably 15 to 20% too high for auction (where there is a caveat emptor implicit discount) . 

55k including the buyers premium  for an unknown vixxen might be OK. allow new engine and airframe work I guess.

gather they have been sitting outside for months and months  in the sun and weather ???

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RFguy said:

the 912s seem to be mostly mid life.  probably 15 to 20% too high for auction (where there is a caveat emptor implicit discount) . 

55k including the buyers premium  for an unknown vixxen might be OK. allow new engine and airframe work I guess.

gather they have been sitting outside for months and months  in the sun and weather ???

The Bankstown fleet was Hangared

Edited by Roscoe
Link to post
Share on other sites

All paperwork has been available at Moorabbin with servicing up to date. An MR is provided for VH.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

The first of three auctions concluded this evening, a flurry of activity in the final few minutes. 
 One of the yellow VH Bristells with 795 hours went for $81.5k whilst the older red/yellow RAA one crept over the $100k mark. 

  • Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Rick, are those figures the final bid prices, or the total sale prices, with buyers premium included? The BP adds a hefty amount to the bid price.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...