In defence of old technology.

[Old Koreelah]

Our local airport is one of the few still with an NDB beacon. We also have a rare old type of PAL unit. Both are way past their replacement dates.

Is there still a role for this Stone Age gear?

 

Criminal gangs and foreign agencies have demonstrated that they can disable our fancy high-tech stuff at will, paralysing companies and whole industries. Is it wise to throw out old, still usable stuff?

[kgwilson]

Only old aircraft will have an ADF fitted so not many would use it I suspect. Even 30 years ago I just used to tune it to the local radio station to listen to music or the cricket etc. I presume the PAL is VHF so that should still be OK for anyone coming in late so if it works why biff it. If it is always breaking down & needs a lot of maintenance you would have to consider retiring it & then deciding if you want to spend the money on an upgrade.

[spacesailor]

I have an old: AWA fax,radio, as seen in the film " the perfect storm " 

Alas no HF broard cast,s now.

spacesailor

[Old Koreelah]

We have a TV from the 1960s, in good working order, but these days the picture is a bit washed out.

 

The point of my post was that we have mobs of workable gear which is routinely tossed out as new technology is introduced. The new stuff is much more prone to hacking. I know of container-loads of emergency service radios which were destined for the tip, yet might be a lifesavers in the very likely event that our new digital networks are attacked. 

[kgwilson]

All the analogue transmitters have been switched off so you would need a digital set top box to even see anything these days & a TV from the 60s is monochrome unless is came from the US (NTSC) or the UK/Germany (PAL).

[Old Koreelah]

It was a joke.

[rgmwa]

I remember when my boss and I were invited to another consultant's office to have a look at the owner's brand new fax machine. It was very new technology then.

You had to hook it up to a telephone handset and dial up. The owner enthusiastically described what it could do.  

My boss was suitably impressed and said, "That's great!", and then added, "... but who else has got one?"

It was a few years ago now.

 

[Old Koreelah]

14 minutes ago, rgmwa said:

I remember when my boss and I were invited to another consultant's office to have a look at the owner's brand new fax machine. It was very new technology then.

You had to hook it up to a telephone handset and dial up. The owner enthusiastically described what it could do.  

My boss was suitably impressed and said, "That's great!", and then added, "... but who else has got one?"

It was a few years ago now.

 

The first fax was sent in the 1860, but it took a while for the technology to spread.

[kgwilson]

The first colour TV was invented in 1884 & John Baird the Scottish electrical engineer credited for inventing TV demonstrated mechanical colour TV in 1928.

[Markdun]

I’ve still got a nifty Z80 based computer that I built a little while ago.  When connected to a HF radio’s audio output and a thermal paper printer, prints out the  BOMs weather reports including actual and predicted MSL pressure charts.  A toggle switch changes the program (I think it’s called an ‘App’ now) to Morse code decoding, assuming you re-tune the HF radio to an appropriate frequency (like RAN ships)...quite interesting if you want to learn which admiral is moving ships for cocktails etc.   At least this was all from the 1980s.  I suppose it still works.

However, I’ve never really worried about what if the GPS system goes down and I’ve never had a need to look at a magnetic mechanical compass in an aircraft.  If the GPS system is out, there’s a lot more grief for others than just me....and I can always revert to the colour and temperature method of navigation, ie. green OK; red, too far west; blue too east; hot too far north, cold too far south.

[spacesailor]

I too have a Sinclair Z80 micro pc.

Never used it, another bit of junk according to, she who must be heard.

Also Commadore Amiga 500, still in its box, with a bucket of software.

Silly me, 

spacesailor

[Marty_d]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

I too have a Sinclair Z80 micro pc.

Never used it, another bit of junk according to, she who must be heard.

Also Commadore Amiga 500, still in its box, with a bucket of software.

Silly me, 

spacesailor

Have a look at Ebay - https://www.ebay.com.au/b/Commodore-Vintage-Computers-and-Mainframes/162075/bn_1843604

 

People pay stupid prices for these "vintage" computers, and if you have a bucket of software it's worth another motza.

 

Sell, young man, sell!

[Old Koreelah]

3 hours ago, Markdun said:

I’ve still got a nifty Z80 based computer...

I still have every computer I ever owned and most still work (they’re Macs).

3 hours ago, Markdun said:

... I’ve never had a need to look at a magnetic mechanical compass in an aircraft....

Nor me, but one day the screen will go blank...so I recently did a proper job of swinging my compass and now it’s pretty much spot on.

[Markdun]

Like I said, if the screen goes blank, there is the colour based navigation option.   But seriously, our primary navigation instrument is the eyeball, hopefully both of them, which should find you a paddock to land in.  If not, you shouldn’t be flying.  I do carry an orienteering compass and a paper map with me, despite the colouring navigation option.  I’ve used this compass to sail single handed across thousands of nautical miles (with charts, a sextant, almanac, watch and calculator/log tables)...if it’s good enough for that. However, this is not life saving stuff to have, just it would be nice to get to where you want to go.

[spacesailor]

Unless you knock the ' sextant ' ( against the mast ) while trying to hold yourself safe !.

Then you,ll have to bring out the pocket GPS to get home. LoL

Want to buy a ' Cmap ' going cheap !.

spacesailor

[Markdun]

Spacey, my reliance on the sextant was pre-GPS days.  If it broke, you fall back on dead-reckoning, or you do a Jimmy Cook, ie. eyeball navigation.  Some yachties still do a James Cook for east coast navigation, ie. keep the land to port.

 

This reliance on instant modern equipment is often just too much.  At work, a colleague thought up a policy proposal to have emergency phones every 5 km on all major highways because it might save a few lives despite the massive cost because, ‘how do you call for help, if there’s an accident’?  My response was you do what people have always done...knock on the door of the nearest house and ask them to call an ambulance, or stop a car and ask them to do so at the next house’.  Evidently this is too ‘embarrassing for young ones.

[spacesailor]

The Sony Pyxus GPS came out 1991, l jumped at the chance of owning such an  outstanding device.

The last bit of equipment was a Cmap cartridge GPS that conected to your laptop, to give a good chart of your area, with your posit I on shown.

spacesailor

 

[Thruster88]

I was tempted by the Sony Pyxus but held off and bought a Garmin 100 in '92, I think it was Garmins first product, a great unit now residing in the obsolete cupboard. 

 

[Flying Binghi]

On 23/06/2021 at 4:29 PM, Old Koreelah said:

Our local airport is one of the few still with an NDB beacon. We also have a rare old type of PAL unit. Both are way past their replacement dates.

Is there still a role for this Stone Age gear?

 

Criminal gangs and foreign agencies have demonstrated that they can disable our fancy high-tech stuff at will, paralysing companies and whole industries. Is it wise to throw out old, still usable stuff?

If you happen to be doing IF when the GPS goes down and yer got an ADF then I suppose there will be a role for it.

 

 

 

 

.

[Old Koreelah]

We have become very dependent on the latest hi-tech gizmos, all of which are vulnerable to interference by bad guys.

It would be prudent to keep some of our proven, older technology available as long as we can.

 

On a parallel tack, the current Covid crisis has severely disrupted world trade and shown us how dependent we have become upon global supply chains. We often hear of how desperately backward things are in North Korea, lots of Africa PNG, etc. True, but people there have had to be much more resilient and self-reliant than us; they are likely to cope with the next big global disrupted far better than we will.

[onetrack]

One would hope the COVID-19 crisis has caused a rethink in corporate policies. The greatest single problem with our economic system today is the emphasis on a high level of short-term profits to reward shareholders and senior management people, instead of looking at how the corporations short-sighted policies impact upon themselves and their clients in the long term.

 

In essence, corporate education and modus operandi fails to place any real value on the customer, or their outlook or opinions, to the corporations long term detriment. Typically, the corporations outlook is simply constant greed for market share and profits, without any long-term insight. There is a stark division between American corporations and Japanese corporations, where the Japanese corporations are more cohesive and forward-looking than any American corporation.

 

The video below is quite interesting as to how corporate short-term greed and the JIT manufacturing process has badly affected supply chains and caused disruption world-wide. There's a whole lot more to any business decision than just a quick dollar, and many things are not measured accurately, when the bean counters try to bring everything back down to hard dollar values.

 

 

[danny_galaga]

On 24/06/2021 at 5:11 PM, kgwilson said:

The first colour TV was invented in 1884 & John Baird the Scottish electrical engineer credited for inventing TV demonstrated mechanical colour TV in 1928.

Interesting, since the first CRT was invented in 1897 😉

[JMLIS]

It does not require interference from the other side to kill GPS. 6 NM North West of the town of Stonehenge in QLD is a facility that looks like a runway, not marked on aviation maps.

I flew over it at about 500 FT AGL once and the GPS on a tablet, one on my phone, and a hand held GPS on board all immediately failed. One came good a couple of hours later, one of them did not work for 24 hours! Back in the early 90's I had a panel mounted GPS fail between Roma and Longreach. After sending the unit back to the States it turned out to be a $2 internal battery. By the time the unit was back in the aircraft it cost $500! Fortunately on both occasions I had paper maps along with me.

 

[spacesailor]

SONY,S, first GPS ' pyxis ' also has a capacitor that counts the times the unit is activated. When its full the unit needs a ' return to maker ' fix.

Thats why it was returned to it,s box & forgotten. 

spacesailor

 

[Thruster88]

8 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

If you happen to be doing IF when the GPS goes down and yer got an ADF then I suppose there will be a role for it.

 

 

 

 

.

You could just have plenty of fuel and call ATC for radar vectors to the nearest suitable runway.