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8 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Turbo - The transport industry has, for the most part, done a great job and should be considered among the many unsung hero's of the pandemic BUT how does a house contents relocation (removalists) become an essential service, when we are all under some forme of lockdown/boarder closure?

 

Sure people (& their effects) must be able to relocate, for a host of good reasons, but this must not happen during a lockdown.

 

The whole point of a lockdown/boarder closure is to limit movement - every person who legally or illegally breaches that cordon increases the risk of transmission. Why increase the risk if you dont have to?

 

I am not blaming the removalist that crossed boarders (the ones that went Sydney/Orange/Molong are something else) NSW, Vic & SA were just doing their job, as an "essential service".

 

I do blame the authorities for not poor communication also for poor definition of what is an essential service.

From memory the furniture removalists involved caused 1 or 2 of the lockdowns, ie were moving when there was no lockdown.

 

Agree that a house in lockdown can't have removalists going in, but removalists moving stock from dept to depot, usually in containers, is a different application.

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As an analogy it is like we are on a boat that is taking on water.     The captain wants us to urgently bail water out of the boat.    Most of the passengers can see the sense in this and ar

Ok, thread is now locked. If you would like to continue with free speech on the subject of Covid please go to our off topic sister site called Social Australia

If you get a chance to fly, then take it to try and keep current.   ‘’I have been lucky enough to have a few friends and acquaintances who are closely connected with the pandemic. I was warn

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4 hours ago, turboplanner said:

From memory the furniture removalists involved caused 1 or 2 of the lockdowns, ie were moving when there was no lockdown.

 

Agree that a house in lockdown can't have removalists going in, but removalists moving stock from dept to depot, usually in containers, is a different application.

 

Stand to be corrected but did they not come from Sydney where there was lockdown (or should have been)?? and yes they did cause a lockdown in Vic & I think SA.

 

I dont really think of a container of who knows what (furniture)being shipped between states (depots) as "removalist".

 

To me removalists are a team of people usually traveling in large covered truck, entering primases A & manually removing loading furniture, with the assistance /direction of the furniture owner. Traveling some distance and reversing the process into premises B.

So we have a team of people who have assemble from their various homes (in Sydney)possibly one or more infected with CV. They then meet indoors with the furniture owner(s) who may also be infected - spend a few hours/day together - get fed & watered at the the nearest takeaway. Then drive X hrs to somewhere (depot/down the track) get fed & watered some more in crowded truck stop (s). Arrive at destination (Vic?) and reverse the whole procedure.

Multiple opportunities for infection - essential?/necessary?

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10 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

 

Stand to be corrected but did they not come from Sydney where there was lockdown (or should have been)?? and yes they did cause a lockdown in Vic & I think SA.

I think Sydney was in that half lockdown, but you can rest your weary head; DHHS Victoria announced this morning that Vic and NSW Police have finished investigations and no charges will be laid. One of the people was fined for not wearing a mask.

 

In some cases furniture is loaded in the one van; in other cases furniture is loaded by a crew in several loads and consolidated into shipping containers, in others some people just need a small module.

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1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

I think Sydney was in that half lockdown, but you can rest your weary head; DHHS Victoria announced this morning that Vic and NSW Police have finished investigations and no charges will be laid. One of the people was fined for not wearing a mask.

 

In some cases furniture is loaded in the one van; in other cases furniture is loaded by a crew in several loads and consolidated into shipping containers, in others some people just need a small module.

I would not expect charges if they were operating under the essential worker rules.

 

How the loading/transportation/unloading occurs, consolidated or not, it seems to me that the activity opens up the potential for multiple infection contacts and the export from NSW of a highly undesirables agent. At the end of the day the Q must still be asked -

  • Would a delay in this activity have caused any long lasting economic/emotional loss/hardship ?? 
  • If the answear is yes, can we weigh in favour of the removal activity continuing, against the potential for CV transmission and the substituent deaths, hospitalisation,  loss of productivity due to ill health and the possibility of lockdown costing billions ??

I suggest not and therefore it can not be classified as an essential activity during a pandemic lockdown - simples! So simple I wonder how the GB/NSW Gove managed to miss it.

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Considering there are people who claim the Earth is flat, people who deny the moon landings were real, people who say aliens live amongst us it only makes sense that people will deny there is a pandemic. I blame this on the X files. Dammed shows like that have those at the lower levels of IQ believing nonsense and then creating problems for the rest of us. By the way, 12 hours after I had my first jab (AstraZeneca) I thought I was going to die. Uncontrollable shivers, freezing cold, dreadful aches all over. God, it was a terrible 5 hours in bed that night! Couldn't even get up to get a Panadol 😵

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Jsabuu7552 - Think positive - Your body has mounted a terrific defence against the CV invader - your immunity is bound to be extra high😂

 

Seriously though - your reaction was extreme (not as extreme as a thrombosis) - I just developed a slightly tender upper arm, about 24 hrs after the jab.

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Has no,one suggested yet !,

Take Panadol or other headache pill Before getting the jab .

I did & had a couple of days discomfort, nothing too bad. Jab two and not even a dore arm !. ( hope it wasn,t a placebo ). 

spacesailor

 

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On 25/07/2021 at 7:32 AM, planesmaker said:

399 reported deaths to TGA from Covid vaccine, makes one wonder if we are going the right way. 

Risk of death from vaccine: 1 in 1 000 000. Risk of death from flying for an hour: 1 in 100 000. Risk of death from COVID > 1 in 1000. Risk of brain damage from delta variant (long COVID with cognitive symptoms) 1 in 10. 

 

I was happy to have AZ. 

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BUT

What does the covid do to the immunised, when they get it ?.

There,s no information out there yet.

spacesailor

 

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Quite a lot of information out there actually.

 

The immunized are less likely to catch it, and far less likely to end up in hospital or worse. In countries with good vaccination coverage, COVID is being described as a disease of the unvaccinated.

 

Experts have been warning that the Delta variant is extremely dangerous for countries with low vaccination rates i.e. Australia.

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Yes, if you are vaccinated the effects of Covid, should you get it, are far less than if you are not vaccinated. Also, because you are vaccinated the virus is killed off quicker by your immune system so you are less likely to spread the disease than the unvaccinated. My book on biology (Biology, Helena Curtis, 5th edition, ISBN 0-87901-394-X) is a great resource and less likely to be full of the crap you get from the Internet. GET VACCINATED!

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9 hours ago, spacesailor said:

BUT

What does the covid do to the immunised, when they get it ?.

There,s no information out there yet.

spacesailor

 

Rather than be a medical speculator, why not check the TGA information as it comes to hand. Then you can see for yourself. 

 

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55 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

I don,t think They want us to know too much !.

spacesailor

I bet you haven't even looked.

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About a dozen TGA ( whatever you call them  ), possible, click ' here' sites.

BUT No, l didn,t go into any of the sites, as l didn,t see ( at a glance ) were to go & coulden,t be bothered to ssearch  all those sites for, what l don,t really whant the answer to.

Just incase it isn,t good !.

spacesailor

 

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13 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

About a dozen TGA ( whatever you call them  ), possible, click ' here' sites.

BUT No, l didn,t go into any of the sites, as l didn,t see ( at a glance ) were to go & coulden,t be bothered to ssearch  all those sites for, what l don,t really whant the answer to.

Just incase it isn,t good !.

spacesailor

 

TGA stands for Therapeutic Goods Administration, a Federal Government Body that safeguards us from defective medicines. There's only one of them and if you can't be bothered checking the facts, best not to post any theories.

 

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I didn,t post a theory,  but a question. 

" what happens to the immunized, after they get the virus ? ".

(  just hoping someone has read ALL the TGA papers )

spacesailor

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Well, Ian hasn't mandated the wearing of pants while posting, so I think we've got a bit of leeway there...😁

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48 minutes ago, KRviator said:

Well, Ian hasn't mandated the wearing of pants while posting, so I think we've got a bit of leeway there...😁

I think they're talking about the other little prick...

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One has to Worry, if we are overstepping the mark, & risking a suspendfull evening without any correspondence! . LoL

spacesailor

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Ok, I’ll now stick my oar in.  First, there is BS everywhere on this issue.  Second, for good trustworthy and reliable information listen to the WHO twice weekly press conference.  Also look at the data and graphs on the covid pandemic in ‘ourworldindata’.

Third, acknowledge that not all outcomes are due to guvmnt or individual action...chance and environment also play their part.  Australia has had good outcomes mainly because of our remoteness and isolation....oceans are good.  Had the premiers not forced the prime minister to close borders we would have been worse off.

Fourth, the vaccines.  Some like AZ (& a host of others) have ‘emergency approval’.  In some countries (USA) others have full approval (mRNA).

Fifth, the vaccines are targeted at reducing deaths and severe illness...they do NOT make people immune, nor are thet tested for reducing transmission.  For example, in the UK over 50% of the population are ‘fully vaccinated’ (over 70% just one dose), and as a result now over 90% have some immune response to Covid,,,,either because they have had the disease or have been vaccinated.  The good news is that the UK despite having an obscene death rate to date (a total basket case really) deaths are now down to 40 per day (and yes it is both vaccinated and unvaccinated). The bad news is that even with such high percentages of vaccination or ‘natural immunity’ their case numbers have been massively growing and hospitals are at capacity.  The evidence there is that being vaccinated reduces getting the disease by about 50% and similarly it only reduces transmission about the same (this is still with over 90% efficacy for death or severe morbidity). This is still extremely good, but it is also why it is completely nonesensical to allow vaccinated people to travel or ignore other public health measured, like mask wearing.  Indeed it is possible that vaccinated people may be more likely to spread the disease precisely because they wrongly believe they no longer need to be careful.  
Sixth, the other lesson learned from the UK is that the ‘let it rip in a fully vaccinated population’ policy, is likely to substantially reduce deaths (compared to an unvaccinated population), but it nevertheless will result in increased deaths.  My back of the envelope calculation is about 5,000 to 10,000 per year for Australia.  The question is, what is an acceptable number of deaths per annum to open an economy that is doing ok without opening up? Influenza currently kills about 3000 per annum.

seven, with the Delta strain that has almost double the transmission of the original one, it is likely that ‘herd immunity’ will not be reached even with 100% vaccinated.  I expect some clever footwork by the boffins on this, with a fudged answer that assumes a certain ongoing death rate.

Eight, there are several studies on case death rates by age, gender and race in quite divergent cultures and countries.  The relationship is pretty uniform and the main findings are that death rates is a log relationship to age: over 80..20%; over 70 ...10%; over 60...5%; under 30...bugger all.  The average of 3% is pretty meaningless.  This is why the advice on AZ and age has changed.

Nine, the problem in Sydney was caused by failed border control; too lax entry, too many exemptions, no federal purpose built effective quarantine facilities (despite having 18 months to do so).  Had the federal government fulfilled their Constitutional responsibilities on ‘we determine who comes across our borders’, we wouldn’t need to be in the mad rush to vaccinate.  Instead, it could have been more orderly, and more moral (in assisting our neighbours in more need).  Instead the hapless feds rushed to purchase vaccines, driving up the price and reducing supply for those in more need, and botched the delivery.

Ten, if you want a good comparison use NZ, Taiwan andSouth Korea.  If you want to look at failed countries look at the USA, UK, France, Brazil.  I used some comparison with the UK....but be careful....they have effectively euthanised a substantial proportion of their over 70 year olds, so their reduced, but still significant, death rate may be due to eugenically thinning out the weak.

Eleven, when you get vaccinated, keep doing the other stuff as you still are likely to be contagious!

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Thanks !?

but

I asked a question ?.

As reported survivers have been left with a lot of severe ailments,

Lungs, liver, kidney & heart problems.

" what will the vaxinated have to endure after their infection " ?.

spacesailor

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Spacey, I think there is a reasonable article in the Guardian today that tried to answer this question. I don’t know. Tthere is not a lot of empirical statistically robust research.  There is the general argument that vaccinated will have less severe outcomes.....but by how much and what proportion?  There are growing comments about children both increasingly contracting the disease and getting long covid/complications with the Delta strain.  It’s good of the USA and UK to have experimented (sorry trialled) vaccines on their children for us.  I do recall early on in the pandemic that a number of hospitals and obstetricians were demanding newborn infants be separated from their mothers (& forced csaesarians in one country) despite the absence of evidence of any benefit.  A similar thing happened with HIV in Africa which resulted in thousands of unnecessary infant deaths.  It’s true we have to make decisions with imperfect information (which would have been better if Morrison had not completely bungled the borders and quarantine), but too often the absence of evidence is wrongly confused with evidence of absence.

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