Dan Gryder from probable cause in Cessna 150 crash.

[Thruster88]

Dan Gryder was involved in a crash of a Cessna 150 following a touch and go or go around at the ACCA flyin. The electric flaps were at 40° and would not retract, aircraft could not maintain altitude. The take home safety message in his own words "we landed the aircraft wings level under control at minimum airspeed". There were no injuries in what could have easily been a STALL SPIN type fatal accident. 

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Thruster88

[onetrack]

Wow! One of the things that most impressed me about that crash was the way the aircraft pilot and pax treated those Troopers when they were taking down details!

No eye contact, offhand behaviour, treating the troopers like they were the scum of society!! What is it about U.S. Troopers that makes so much of the U.S. population not respect them?

I know they can be heavy-handed and abrasive (and I've encountered police with that attitude here in Australia) - but this performance is quite eye-opening!

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by onetrack

[RossK]

13 hours ago, onetrack said:

Wow! One of the things that most impressed me about that crash was the way the aircraft pilot and pax treated those Troopers when they were taking down details!

No eye contact, offhand behaviour, treating the troopers like they were the scum of society!! What is it about U.S. Troopers that makes so much of the U.S. population not respect them?

I know they can be heavy-handed and abrasive (and I've encountered police with that attitude here in Australia) - but this performance is quite eye-opening!

 

I wonder if it's the adrenaline rush of what just happened, and being surrounded by your peers and wanting to talk to them about it.

[Flightrite]

skip to 6:00 mins, the rest is a waste of film:-) I bet the farmer was impressed!:-)

[Thruster88]

 

[Flightrite]

I used to own a C150 about a 100 years ago, when being taught to drive it was told NEVER to put down 40degs flap till you where committed or not at all! The difference in stall speed and ground run is minimal between 30-40 degs.

[Garfly]

Much better that both sides stuck down rather than just one. That'd be the deadly scenario.

 

And Gryder's message/lesson:  "I did not stall/spin it"  is as a great take away for all of us, if we can only assimilate it.

[Tasmag]

I wonder how he will feel about all the monday morning quarterbacks deciding what he did wrong!

[Thruster88]

On 27/07/2021 at 9:19 AM, Tasmag said:

I wonder how he will feel about all the monday morning quarterbacks deciding what he did wrong!

I honestly don't think he has a problem with that. I enjoy his channel and believe he and others can make a difference to the way average pilots think and fly their aircraft to reduce the appalling fatal accident rate in GA including light sport aircraft. Monday morning quarterbacks can not fault the "I did not stall the aircraft" bit.

 

Now for my probable cause as to why the flaps failed to retract. I have learned the the Cessna would not start due to weak battery and was hand propped. There are only two possible reasons, failed generator or failed battery. The failure to start and retract flaps are highly likely to be linked. 

 

Replacing the battery is always the safest if not the most convenient option when aircraft wont start, especially if flying into IMC or for aircraft that require voltage to run the engine eg 912iS.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Thruster88

[Mewp]

Had a 172 with flap extension failure. Was the earth lead from the flap motor to the wing skin. Dissimilar metal corrosion.

[spenaroo]

In interviews I thought he said that the battery had been replaced before the flight

[Old Koreelah]

A powerful argument against electric flaps.

 

[cooperplace]

10 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

A powerful argument against electric flaps.

 

Agreed. And trim. I'm happy with manual.

[planedriver]

Keep on saying it. "Simplicity is the essence of reliabilty"

 

[Roundsounds]

Never had a flap, electrical system or gyro instrument issue in my 1939 J3 Cub. 

[spenaroo]

having gone from jabiru's to Vixxens,

the manual flap is awesome. just reach up and pull down. no need to have loose straps so I can reach the panel to activate flaps.
also an instant fluid movement, no waiting for the action to happen holding your hand on the switch.

[RFguy]

Jabiru used to have 40 deg flap in many of their aircraft a (including 230 and variants) , and they found that 40 deg flap provided no benefit over 30 deg, just a ton of extra drag !

 

and so there was a SB about it with limit stop changes for the flap motor to limit to 30 deg

 

as usual , Jabiru has a great airframe.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by RFguy

[kiwiaviator]

Nearly did the same in a C172 after a touch and go many years ago. Managed to finally get them up before doing what Dan did. Takeaways for me:

• C172's do not climb well at full flap.
• Only use full flap when you really need to and are 99% committed to the landing.
• As a general rule, I do touch and go's at takeoff flap setting.

[Thruster88]

On 04/08/2021 at 10:01 AM, spenaroo said:

In interviews I thought he said that the battery had been replaced before the flight

- NTSB Issue the preliminary report into the July 24th, 2021, crash involving Dan Gryder in a Cessna 150F, N7893F, at Sterling-Whiteside County Airport (SQI/KSQI), Rock Falls, Illinois, during the 2021 ACCA:

On July 24, 2021, about 1830 central daylight time, a Cessna 150F, N7893F, was substantially damaged when it was involved in an accident near Rock Falls, Illinois. The two pilots were not injured. The airplane was operated as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 personal flight.

According to one of the pilots, the two pilots met each other at an aviation event just prior to the accident flight. After a short discussion, the two pilots decided to conduct a local flight in the accident airplane. The pilot and owner, who was seated in the left seat, reported the airplane’s engine needed to be hand-propped due to a “weak starter.” After the engine start-up, the pilots monitored the airplane’s electrical system and performed an engine run-up with no issues noted.

While on downwind after takeoff, the right seat pilot asked to take the airplane’s controls from the left seat pilot, and a positive exchange of controls was accomplished. The pilot then flew a low approach over a temporary grass runway with 40° of flaps extended. The pilot did not intend to land and performed a go-around about 100 ft above the ground with full engine power and carburetor heat in the off position. The pilot then attempted to retract the flaps, and he reported the flaps would not retract. The left seat pilot attempted to cycle the flap switch and was unsuccessful in retracting the flaps. Unable to maintain altitude, the right seat pilot performed an off-airport landing to a corn field. The airplane impacted the corn field, flipped over, and came to rest inverted.

The airplane sustained substantial damage to the engine firewall and engine mount. The airplane and engine were recovered and will be examined.

Aircraft and Owner/Operator Information

Aircraft Make: Cessna
Registration: N7893F
Model/Series: 150F
Aircraft Category: Airplane
Amateur Built: No
Operator: On file
Operating Certificate(s) Held: None
Operator Designator Code:

Meteorological Information and Flight Plan

Conditions at Accident Site: VMC
Condition of Light: Day
Observation Facility, Elevation: KSQI,647 ft msl 
Observation Time: 17:56 Local
Distance from Accident Site: 0 Nautical Miles
Temperature/Dew Point: 32°C /25°C
Lowest Cloud Condition: Clear
Wind Speed/Gusts, Direction: 13 knots / , 290°
Lowest Ceiling: None
Visibility: 10 miles
Altimeter Setting: 29.85 inches Hg 
Type of Flight Plan Filed: None
Departure Point: Rock Falls, IL 
Destination: Rock Falls, IL

Wreckage and Impact Information

Crew Injuries: 1 None 
Aircraft Damage: Substantial
Passenger Injuries: 1 None 
Aircraft Fire: None
Ground Injuries: 
Aircraft Explosion: None
Total Injuries: 2 None 
Latitude, Longitude: 41.739882,-89.681476

- The photo is obviously not from the report, it was posted by Dan himself on Facebook on July 31st.

[Flightrite]

Kinda set themselves up to fail! Swiss cheese you could say! Surprised old grumpy Dan put himself in that position!

[F10]

Why select 40 degrees when he didn’t intend to land? A runway inspection should be done at “one notch” of flap I would think. Golden rule: 

Up to around 12 deg, lots of lift increase, for slight drag increase.

+12 Deg and more, slight lift increase, with lots of drag increase.

My take on it. High drag on final is desirable, as speed control is easier, more predictable. The aircraft responds faster to power changes, on final. Especially if you are flying a jet approach, controlling speed with power. Works well controlling glideslope aspect with power, constant speed. Older jet engines had lots of throttle lag, high drag allowed an approach to be flown with higher percentage power settings, leading to faster throttle response. However, take offs and runway inspections should beat a lower takeoff flap setting, I heard Dan even say he didn’t intend to land, so strange the 40 deg flaps? Finally, can’t understand why Cessna would allow a flap setting that puts the aircraft a marginal performance situation. I do think the Fowler flaps on Cessnas are the best in GA aircraft. Split flaps a close second.