Hours flown

[Bruce Tuncks]

It would have been OK if he had done the check earlier. As it was, he did it just as he was lining up for take-off.

 

[Flightrite]

Fiddling with tank to engine selector/s just prior to take off is foolish at best!

A few machines I’ve flown over many years had aux tanks that needed to be drained/pumped into the mains if you wanted to access the entire fuel supply, on a long over water flight that was done as soon as the space became available. Short of a catastrophic mech failure engine stoppages are mostly due fuel starvation, often driver induced! The one thing I’m anal about is fuel

,

[kgwilson]

I was talking to a recently qualified RA pilot the other day who owns a Seamax. He said his reserve was 6 litres. I asked what did he think the legal reserve was & he had no idea. After a bit of questioning it transpired that he thought the header tank that holds 6 litres was his reserve. We then had a serious chat about reserves.

 

I won't go anywhere unless I have an hours worth of fuel left after calculating my duration plus possible diversions. I have a 100 litre fuselage tank but put in 2 x 35 litre wing tanks as well. The aim was to be able to go on a long trip and probably back again without having to refuel which may be difficult at small airfields, possibly requiring a trip into the nearest town.

 

My bladder & brain would never last even half of the aircrafts endurance with full fuel to start with.

[Blueadventures]

14 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

I was talking to a recently qualified RA pilot the other day who owns a Seamax. He said his reserve was 6 litres. I asked what did he think the legal reserve was & he had no idea. After a bit of questioning it transpired that he thought the header tank that holds 6 litres was his reserve. We then had a serious chat about reserves.

 

I won't go anywhere unless I have an hours worth of fuel left after calculating my duration plus possible diversions. I have a 100 litre fuselage tank but put in 2 x 35 litre wing tanks as well. The aim was to be able to go on a long trip and probably back again without having to refuel which may be difficult at small airfields, possibly requiring a trip into the nearest town.

 

My bladder & brain would never last even half of the aircrafts endurance with full fuel to start with.

Has he done XC yet?  Hope not.

 

[Old Koreelah]

4 hours ago, Flightrite said:

I’ve deliberately left the fuel tap off in one of my Jab donk powered machines to see how long it would run for. Doing a proper run up & warm up would see the engine quit well before being flight ready.

 

I have it on good authority that to start a Jab 2.2, warm up, taxi to far end of runway, take off and climb to about 500’ burns slightly more than one litre of fuel.

 

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

I almost bought a 150 Eagle aircraft.

It was an insurance disposal. $5,000 US.

The damage was only the tail wheel getting smashed off when it was put ( tailwheel ), up on a bench fot ' final weighing ) .with its  Brand-new Hirth motor. How do you buy planes in America. 

Why so cheap,  no one repairs glass or carbon fibre composites.

Here ( Australia ) The only repairer charges. 50% ownership. Plus cost. 

( i tried to buy a sailplane, with a damaged nose cone, ( didn,t stop in time ! ).

I won't touch composite at all.

spacesailor

 

[turboplanner]

6 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

I have it on good authority that to start a Jab 2.2, warm up, taxi to far end of runway, take off and climb to about 500’ burns slightly more than one litre of fuel.

CASA Advisory Circular 91-15 V1.1 came into effect on December 2, 2021, so you'll have to start calculating the  ground and flight segments. (The 30 minute reserve and requirement to declare a Mayday came in on 8/11/18 for MTOW <5700 kg)

I've attached a copy.

 

I also updated some old P&O training material using an excel spreadsheet. It would be fairly easy for you, if there are performance charts for your aircraft, to convert this to a calculator where you only need to input the flight details and it will print off the totals.

 

If you ever have to call a Mayday the first thing you're usually asked for is endurance in minutes, so they can work out a solution and this chart plus the 10 minute makes it easy to give them that data.

 

The figures aren't from any particular aircraft - just there to provide an example.

 

 

 

WX00175.xlsx WX00176.pdf

[Bruce Tuncks]

I thought that the legal reserve was 40 mins flying time, which is 11 liters for a 2.2 Jabiru.

I just don't know under what circumstances it is legal to use some of this...  maybe none !

Personally, I have never used any reserve so I need some help here.

[kgwilson]

Bruce, it used to be 45 minutes but was changed to 30 minutes 8-10 years ago. I can't remember the reason but when talking about the change at a CASA seminar there was some logic to it. I think 30 minutes is the standard reserve in most countries now.

[kgwilson]

10 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

Has he done XC yet?  Hope not.

 

No.

[Old Koreelah]

3 hours ago, turboplanner said:

CASA Advisory Circular 91-15 V1.1 came into effect on December 2, 2021, so you'll have to start calculating the  ground and flight segments. (The 30 minute reserve and requirement to declare a Mayday came in on 8/11/18 for MTOW <5700 kg)

I've attached a copy...I

Thanks Turbs. A dligent pilot must read to page 29 before seeing any actual numbers… and I guess that is the “plain English” version.

 

I suspect they don’t actually want us to read the rules.

[turboplanner]

51 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I thought that the legal reserve was 40 mins flying time, which is 11 liters for a 2.2 Jabiru.

I just don't know under what circumstances it is legal to use some of this...  maybe none !

Personally, I have never used any reserve so I need some help here.

It was 45 minutes for decades, but changed in 2018 plus the requirement to call a Mayday.

 

[turboplanner]

9 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

Thanks Turbs. A dligent pilot must read to page 29 before seeing any actual numbers… and I guess that is the “plain English” version.

 

I suspect they don’t actually want us to read the rules.

That's just the circular announcing the changes.

It covers the changes in definition of reserve from "fixed reserve fuel" which we've used for decades to "final reserved fuel" and a few thigs like that, so probably coming into line with ICAO.

 

Often the rules are simpler, but people ask endless questions,hence the circular with explanations.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I thought that the legal reserve was 40 mins flying time, which is 11 liters for a 2.2 Jabiru.

I just don't know under what circumstances it is legal to use some of this...  maybe none !

Personally, I have never used any reserve so I need some help here.

Go to the circular to read the status of final reserve fuel, where if you get to the start of the 30 minutes you'll be calling a Mayday.

 

While you may not have used reserve fuel, I had an early lesson in Queensland having to divert around and between thunderstorms for a couple of hours. Had put in full fuel for a short leg, so had plenty of fuel, but I'd never experienced that before. 

 

I've never come into Moorabbin to find it closed, but there is an ATSB story about someone who did, was sent to an alternate that was closed, tried another one which was closed and came back to Moorabbin with air in the tanks and forced his way in which triggered the ATSB report.

 

Another way you can get into reserve is planning long legs based on the weather forecast and the forecast being wrong, and finding a howling headwind and a ground speed that's just chewing up hours.

 

 

[kgwilson]

The only time you have too much fuel on board is when you are on fire.

[Flightrite]

30 mins res is not much gas for a lot of planes! Remember that the 30 mins had to actually be useable too, quite a few machines out there have high un-useable amounts. It’s seat sweating stuff to be watching the FMS and trying to ‘make’ fuel whilst en Route, light A/C fuel Qty can be an educated guess at the best of times! 

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, Flightrite said:

watching the FMS and trying to ‘make’ fuel whilst en Route, light A/C fuel Qty can be an educated guess at the best of times! 

There's not enough data on fuel burn rate in RA, so tanks can be dipped for volume and usable fuel left is accurate.

On top of that the shallow, flat, wing tanks in aircraft such as Jabiru are very difficult to dip because even a slight slope will give you a false reading.

 

RA was never intended for long distance cruising, and more accurate fuel measurement is something that needs more design effort.

[spacesailor]

With a ' known ' litres per hour of engine time !.

Were,s the problem  ?. Rotax are known to have good records of consumption.

AND 

At six litres per hour, can my Hummel just have a two litre bottle  of fuel, plus funnel.

After exhausting the fuel tank l could reach over the windscreen to top up with my two ltres, for anothe 40 minutes of flight. LoL

Why are the Heavy aircraft so poor in fuel management !.

Even some jumbo jets have run out of fuel !, & aren,t they professionals. 

spacesailor

[Blueadventures]

4 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

With a ' known ' litres per hour of engine time !.

Were,s the problem  ?. Rotax are known to have good records of consumption.

AND 

At six litres per hour, can my Hummel just have a two litre bottle  of fuel, plus funnel.

After exhausting the fuel tank l could reach over the windscreen to top up with my two ltres, for anothe 40 minutes of flight. LoL

Why are the Heavy aircraft so poor in fuel management !.

Even some jumbo jets have run out of fuel !, & aren,t they professionals. 

spacesailor

You'll probably craze the windscreen with fuel being blown onto it by the air flow.  Can't see that working using a funnel. 🙃

[spacesailor]

" With a ' known ' litres per hour of engine time !.

Were,s the problem  ?. Rotax are known to have good records of consumption.

AND 

At six litres per hour, can my Hummel just have a two litre bottle  of fuel, plus funnel. "☆

On the last word of the fourth line. 

The cap is attached,  top off bottle , funnel to cover the fuel, then upend into the gapping orifice. All to be done in one quick smooth movement.

spacesailor

Edited January 11, 2022 by spacesailor
More added

[facthunter]

Any plane can get a fuel leak. The float problem with Bing Carbs would produce a large fuel usage figure and a fire  risk. If your tank cap is not put back on or cross threaded or the seal damaged fuel will vent overboard with some tanks.. I know of a case where the airbox was modified on an 80 Hp 912 and the consumption went from 16 to 23 litres an hour. Good indicators would pick that up quite early but you rarely have them. in our aircraft. You cannot RELY on indication only at the fill stage. Onload from a legal tankers gauges are acceptable. for onload and defuel occasions.. Nev

[red750]

A little off the theme of the topic, because I flew GA before RAA existed. In my aviation experience, over 18 years, (1968-1986), I flew about 180 hours, dual and PIC. I learnt and got my restricted licence on a Beechcraft B19 Sport, and unrestricted on a B23 Musketeer. The school also had a Victa Airtourer which I was endorsed on. The school then changed to a Piper fleet and I endorsed on Warriors. They had a PA28R Arrow on cross-hire which school members could hire if they were  checked out on the schools B35 Bonanza, so I did a conversion to the Bonanza and Arrow.

 

I moved to Sydney for work for 5 years, and while there flew with Chieftain Flying School, where I added endorsements for Grumman AA-5A Tiger and Cessna 182.