Yenn Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Has anyone looked for the incident reports lately. I thought I would look to see how many involved nosewheels, but cannot find any reports on RAAus web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) I look on a regular basis. Nosewheel collapse and runway excursions by nosewheel and tailwheel aircraft are all to common. The most recent. 19/9/2021 MKT Aerodrome NT I C P Savannah S Rotax 912 ULS STATUS: Under review EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: On the forth landing of the day, the nose w... STATUS: Under review EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: On the forth landing of the day, the nose wheel partially collapsed. Unfortunately we will probably never know why the nosewheel partially collapsed. The accident and incident section seems to be just a box ticking exercise. How hard is it to have some follow up especially on the engine failures. Edited October 16, 2021 by Thruster88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, Thruster88 said: I look on a regular basis. Nosewheel collapse and runway excursions by nosewheel and tailwheel aircraft are all to common. The most recent. 19/9/2021 MKT Aerodrome NT I C P Savannah S Rotax 912 ULS STATUS: Under review EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: On the forth landing of the day, the nose w... STATUS: Under review EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: On the forth landing of the day, the nose wheel partially collapsed. Unfortunately we will probably never know why the nosewheel partially collapsed. The accident and incident section seems to be just a box ticking exercise. How hard is it to have some follow up especially on the engine failures. Probably the same quality of the investigations 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Thruster88 said: I look on a regular basis. Nosewheel collapse and runway excursions by nosewheel and tailwheel aircraft are all to common. The most recent. 19/9/2021 MKT Aerodrome NT I C P Savannah S Rotax 912 ULS STATUS: Under review EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: On the forth landing of the day, the nose w... STATUS: Under review EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: On the forth landing of the day, the nose wheel partially collapsed. Unfortunately we will probably never know why the nosewheel partially collapsed. The accident and incident section seems to be just a box ticking exercise. How hard is it to have some follow up especially on the engine failures. RAA Inc officers used to go further than that - not up to the level of ATSB because RAA doesn't have the exemptions to lawsuits that ATSB has, but more detail. Probably needs members to request more details (but not so many that RAA has to respnd with what I just said about its liability.) Edited October 16, 2021 by turboplanner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 If the quality of investigations is hamstrung for any reason, then the value of them is virtually useless. Wasted time even…… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 That is exactly what happens. IF you dumb it down enough, it's not achieving anything worthwhile other than appearing to be doing SOMETHING. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Some of the initial reports by pilots are very good providing all the information required for someone reading the report to understand exactly what happened. Perhaps management could encourage this style of report, it would cut their work load and be of some benefit to members. This is RAAus for anyone not from Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 I could not find the reports when I looke yesterday and was wondering if they have been discontinued. I put in a report years ago and it was edited and printed up. It stated that I had not checked the tailwheel spring when I pre flighted, even though I had stated that I had checked it. Even so it is good to read what has happened as it can open our eyes to something unexpectad. My thoughts are that nosewheel damage is one of the most common events. Good to read what has happened as it can open our eyes to something unexpectad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Yenn said: I put in a report years ago and it was edited and printed up. It stated that I had not checked the tailwheel spring when I pre flighted, even though I had stated that I had checked it. This happens sometimes when all the various witnesses have put their ten cents in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Reports get tampered with. I came across an incident record recently that I witnessed at very close range 35+ years ago and some of the radio calls which came from the plane I was in were credited to the tower. The content of the transmissions were such that the Tower could not have been aware of the subject as they were too far away. It's probably just laziness. Near enough is good enough , but it does then become an established fact as far as the record is concerned.. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 As has been noted previously by an astute observer; "When you read the records relating to eyewitnesses evidence, provided for a crash investigation, it tends to make one doubt the worlds entire recorded history". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Just have a rumour spread for a while and when it comes back around it will be unrecognisable to the original. Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundsounds Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 The system is flawed, lots of data collected but no apparent analysis. They should be looking at trends and developing a range of methods of correcting these trends. For example, it doesn’t take too much digging to see there are lots of landing incidents. I have not seen any targeted training on stabilised approaches or go-arounds. To me, a go-around is like a safety valve, if things aren’t going well on late final / initial touchdown and the pressure is building up go-around and work out what to do differently on the next approach. Too many instructors correct bad approaches / landings, these are ideal training events. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Many RAAus planes are very wind sensitive especially the stol and low wing load and short span types. I've always believed these planes require a high degree of skill (more than many GA) l to fly especially in gusts... Go around at the first bounce or any time the approach is below par. Don't fly in conditions beyond safe for the plane you fly but sometimes something happens you aren't expecting. If you hit a dust devil you'll probably want to give up flying.. Nev 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossK Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 If you get onto the RAA site, as part of their Octoaber Safety month there is a Survey. RAA "Help us Improve Safety" Give them feed back that the incident reports are mostly useless without a follow up report. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, RossK said: If you get onto the RAA site, as part of their Octoaber Safety month there is a Survey. RAA "Help us Improve Safety" Give them feed back that the incident reports are mostly useless without a follow up report. Filled it out and gave comprehensive answers where asked and sent it…….worthless as it immediately edited most of my stuff out………waste of time 😞 Perhaps I need to send my information it left out, direct in an email to the CEO 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 To HELP IMPROVE SAFETY ??? Don't edit stuff out. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 2 hours ago, facthunter said: If you hit a dust devil you'll probably want to give up flying.. Nev You've brought up dust devils a lot over the years. How many have you been caught in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 See page 20 in the link below. Dust devils are a real and constant threat in nearly all dry inland areas during Spring and Summer. https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5774797/asd_101_78.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundsounds Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 2 hours ago, turboplanner said: You've brought up dust devils a lot over the years. How many have you been caught in? It only takes one to make you wary of them. The nearest I’ve come to bending an aeroplane have been encounters with 2 thermals, both western NSW in low wing loading aeroplanes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Don't go chasing dust devils in a glider... I have generally been disappointed in the thermal at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Getting back to incident reports... Why would you self-incriminate yourself by making one? I understand why they all say that you will not be victimized, but they have a record of being untrustworthy. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 31 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said: Getting back to incident reports... Why would you self-incriminate yourself by making one? I understand why they all say that you will not be victimized, but they have a record of being untrustworthy. Not that I've seen going way back to the Air Safety Digest days where there was usually a story evry issue, just to make the point, and not according to the formal processes. However there are PLENTY of "I was innocent and the bastsards just picked on me" stories, some including self-incrimination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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