Oil Hose/Rotax 912

[skippydiesel]

Have been researching availability & price of 12mm (1/2")  oil hose for a Rotax 9 here in Australia.

 

Original hose fitted, is a Continental from the CONTI M4M-2 range. So far cant find a supplier in Australia - I live in hope.

Of course B Flood will supply (dont know the brand) at an astonishing $1.13/cm (who in the engineering world uses centimetres???)  which translates into the more common pricing expression of $ 112.20/m

My local Pirtek will supply  LP HT-08  oil hose that appears to meet /exceed the same specifications of CONTI M4M-2 for$31.75/m

 

What are you using ?these days  and of course who is the supplier ? and at what cost?

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Don't tell me this is a subject that no one has experience in/opinion on/advice to give . 

 

Every Rotax 9 driver/maintainer MUST change rubber (hoses) every 5 years and builders using Rotax 9's will be purchasing this sort of hose ------ soooo why the silence?.

[Thruster88]

They probably all go to Pirtek or their local no name hydraulic shop.

[onetrack]

Contitech has an Australian division and I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to supply hose from their M4M-2 range from their sales/distribution centres.

 

https://www.continental-industry.com/en/topnavi/company/location-profiles/australia

 

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

They probably all go to Pirtek or their local no name hydraulic shop.

Yeah well the Pirtek LP HT-08 product appears to have the correct specs/characteristics and the price is also very good at $31.75/m - anyone actually used it?

[skippydiesel]

51 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Contitech has an Australian division and I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to supply hose from their M4M-2 range from their sales/distribution centres.

 

https://www.continental-industry.com/en/topnavi/company/location-profiles/australia

 

Thanks for that 1T - somehow didn't find that Conti address when I did my Google search - have written to the Sydney office. let you know if they can supply @ price.

[skippydiesel]

Weird thing - when I Google CONTI-OIL -M4M-2 I get a spec sheet for the hose BUT when I put he same info into any of the Continental/Conti web sites I get a big fat 0

[onetrack]

The hose is in the Contitech catalogue, so I don't know why you can't locate it on the dealer websites.

 

Quite often, though, the search engines on many websites are utterly useless. Google will find it every time, using the correct search words.

 

https://merlett.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/RubberHosesGeneralCatalog_en_low.pdf

[skippydiesel]

12 hours ago, onetrack said:

The hose is in the Contitech catalogue, so I don't know why you can't locate it on the dealer websites.

 

Quite often, though, the search engines on many websites are utterly useless. Google will find it every time, using the correct search words.

 

https://merlett.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/RubberHosesGeneralCatalog_en_low.pdf

Thanks for that 1T - it seems that Merlett is a relativly recent Continental acquisition and the contents of the catalogue may not be available in Australia.

[skippydiesel]

Sales persons & finding for myself alternative suggestions to CONTI M4M-2  I have found the following possible substitutes;

 

Gates

• G3H - PN 3319-4261
• GTH - PN 3319-3317
• 27066 PN 33193359

Continental

• Conti L5-1  ½
• Conti L5-2  ½

Pirtek

• LP HT-08

 

Min Specifications:

• Engine oil compatible
• Temperature (continuose) 130C
• Pressure (continuous) 125 psi
• Good flexibility
• Abrasion resistant
• Compatible with push on/hose camp attachment 
• Light weight (probably excludes metal reinforcing)

 

Your constructive comments will be most welcome.

 

[skippydiesel]

Just found another possible contender ; Eaton Aeroquipe FC598-08  ($10.80/ft making it about $30/m not sure if this is US or AU)- Trying for an Australian supplier.

[onetrack]

Berendsen Fluid Power will be able to supply Eaton Aeroquip hose.

 

https://www.berendsen.com.au/about-us/locations/

 

Gates has a search system on their website for their distributors. You will probably need to find an Industrial Gates distributor.

 

https://www.gatesaustralia.com.au/where-to-buy

 

I have always found Aeroquip and Gates hoses to be very satisfactory products, provided the conditions in use, do not exceed the hose specifications.

 

[skippydiesel]

55 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Berendsen Fluid Power will be able to supply Eaton Aeroquip hose.

 

https://www.berendsen.com.au/about-us/locations/

 

Gates has a search system on their website for their distributors. You will probably need to find an Industrial Gates distributor.

 

https://www.gatesaustralia.com.au/where-to-buy

 

I have always found Aeroquip and Gates hoses to be very satisfactory products, provided the conditions in use, do not exceed the hose specifications.

 

1T - Gates 27066 PN 33193359 should be available through Repco.

 

Like you I have always used Gates products for fuel lines and coolant hoses but at this stage never for oil.

 

I will check out Berendsen Fluid Power

[onetrack]

Gates do not involve themselves in industrial hose manufacturing. Their hose products are purely automotive, and the Gates 27066 is an automotive transmission cooler hose.

The specs state it is rated to 250psi (1.72MPa) maximum operating pressure and a maximum operating temperature of 135°C, which is a bare minimum for hot engine/transmission oil, IMO.

Transmission oil temps can go to 150°C on hot days and with heavy tow loads.

 

https://www.gates.com/us/en/fluid-power/engine-hose/transmission-oil-cooler-hose.p.3289-000000-000001.v.3319-03359.html

 

However, the Aeroquip products are extensively hydraulic system products, and as such have much higher pressure and temperature ratings.

The FC598 hose is a "low pressure" hydraulic return line hose, but it is rated to 150°C and 1600psi (11MPa) burst pressure.

However the FC598 hose may be less flexible than the Gates product, and you need to envisage the level of hose flexibility required for your purpose.

 

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.FC598-08.specifications.html

 

 

[skippydiesel]

A tad tangential but I believe that Gates do in fact have an industrial section - I have perused their hydraulic hoses (mainly for trucks)  - all steel reinforced, so I would expect to be heavy, stiff and probably not compatible with a push on/hose clamp application eg Gates High Temp Flexline Hose.

 

Rotax engine oil should not go over 130C and pressures max out at about 120 psi when cold/start. So Gates 27066 will probably do the job - just. The margin of safety is a little slim for my liking.

 

The Rotax supplied CONTI M4M-2  is good for 135C normal and up to 150C short duration and up to 1088 psi - well over any operating situation.

 

 

[onetrack]

You are correct, I erred with insufficient research - Gates do indeed manufacture a wide range of industrial and hydraulic hoses.

I have only ever used Gates hoses and belts - Aeroquip have always been my preferred hydraulic hose - but I just realised I have a pallet of Gates high pressure spiral wire hydraulic hose in my workshop! (acquired in a minesite surplus auction).

 

Gates manufacture a high temperature transmission oil cooler return hose that is rated to 149°C. Hardy Spicer are the Gates industrial hose supplier.

 

https://www.hardyspicer.com.au/hoses-fittings/gates-hose/

 

(See "MegaTech 250" hose in this catalogue) https://www.hardyspicer.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/D1_Hyd_Hose.pdf

 

[aro]

10 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Rotax engine oil should not go over 130C and pressures max out at about 120 psi when cold/start

Rotax oil pressure is all inside the engine. The hoses see suction not pressure - so you need to be looking at the negative pressure ratings.

 

It also makes it important to respect minimum bend radius, to minimize the possibility the hose will collapse.

[skippydiesel]

9 hours ago, onetrack said:

You are correct, I erred with insufficient research - Gates do indeed manufacture a wide range of industrial and hydraulic hoses.

I have only ever used Gates hoses and belts - Aeroquip have always been my preferred hydraulic hose - but I just realised I have a pallet of Gates high pressure spiral wire hydraulic hose in my workshop! (acquired in a minesite surplus auction).

 

Gates manufacture a high temperature transmission oil cooler return hose that is rated to 149°C. Hardy Spicer are the Gates industrial hose supplier.

 

https://www.hardyspicer.com.au/hoses-fittings/gates-hose/

 

(See "MegaTech 250" hose in this catalogue) https://www.hardyspicer.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/D1_Hyd_Hose.pdf

 

!T - thanks for that. The MegaTech 250 has a wire braid, so I doubt its application as Rotax 9 oil hose (weight, push on connection, ease of cutting to length). However the catalogue also has  a range of fibre braid hoses that may be suitable (Page D:1-15 ) G3h & GTH, both of which have very similar attributes with GTH possibly having lighter weight.

 

I will check out availability and price next week.

Edited January 21, 2022 by skippydiesel

[skippydiesel]

4 minutes ago, aro said:

Rotax oil pressure is all inside the engine. The hoses see suction not pressure - so you need to be looking at the negative pressure ratings.

 

It also makes it important to respect minimum bend radius, to minimize the possibility the hose will collapse.

Thanks for the reminder Aro - all the hoses I have been checking out will have excellent negative pressure capability  - see the latest Hardy Spicer / Gates stuff referred to above.

[facthunter]

IF you might get enough negative pressure to make the hose section collapse consider a coil spring inside  of it.. Nev

[cscotthendry]

Did the 5 year rubber replacement on the Legend last year. I just ordered the hose from Floods and was done with it. Toohard chasing odd bits for Rotax engines and then you might have “under spec” parts that would automatically get the blame if anything happens.

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, cscotthendry said:

Did the 5 year rubber replacement on the Legend last year. I just ordered the hose from Floods and was done with it. Toohard chasing odd bits for Rotax engines and then you might have “under spec” parts that would automatically get the blame if anything happens.

Fair comment, absolutely the safest way to go and as always your choice.

 

Personally I dont like being taken for a mug/ride by a greedy service provider, selling at a probable mark up of plus 500% .Trying to hid this by quoting on a "centimetre" rate , rather than the usual metre rate. The market should in the this, and all similar transactions, rule - there is a heap of products out there, meeting the same or higher specs, from reputable service providers, at a fraction of the cost.

 

Don't get me wrong B Flood provide a great service but sometimes they take our loyalty a little too much for granted. Your rubber replacement (assuming you sourced all from Floods) will have cost you several times what a little initiative would have achieved by shopping around for those items  available from alternative suppliers eg Repco who are agents for Gates coolant & fuel hose (that I have relied on for 20 years or so)

 

From my perspective its Forums like this that give you & I the opportunity to shop elsewhere.

 

With luck & assistance from Forum members, I will be able to provide a costed list of alternative oil hose  products, within the next 10 days or so.

[aro]

23 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

all the hoses I have been checking out will have excellent negative pressure capability  - see the latest Hardy Spicer / Gates stuff referred to above.

The Rotax installation manual specifies capable of withstanding a negative pressure of 7.25 psi at 150C. Thats about 15 in.hg so the GTH-08 meets it at 18 in.hg but I would prefer the margin in the G3H-08.

 

The G3H hose seems to maintain 28 in.hg (i.e. 1 atmosphere) up to 3/4 inch, where the GTH only specifies 28 in.hg up to 3/8 inch. So the G3H looks better for suction applications.

[aro]

3 hours ago, cscotthendry said:

Did the 5 year rubber replacement on the Legend last year. I just ordered the hose from Floods and was done with it. Toohard chasing odd bits for Rotax engines and then you might have “under spec” parts that would automatically get the blame if anything happens.

The problem with the oil hoses is that they attach to parts that are not necessarily Rotax provided e.g. the oil cooler. Are the Rotax hoses compatible with all oil cooler fittings?

[Blueadventures]

I use the oil hose from floods are what ever the price is at the time.  I know it will at least do the job.  Also I believe it is good to support the company so they remain in business; plus any time I have a tech question or seek advice they know me as a regular customer and have always been helpful to me.  Just my way of living. Cheers.