Airplane axe: a disproportionate response

[APenNameAndThatA]

[spacesailor]

It,s much - much nicer , than what I was given as a teenager.

 " Chopping nice aircraft ", getting them ready for the smelter.

spacesailor

[APenNameAndThatA]

It's a 400 g axe head on a normal-sized axe handle. Full-sized axe heads weigh about 2.5 kg. It looks stupid and out of proportionate. I'm taking it camping. 

[onetrack]

You'll gain no advantage from fitting a regular-size handle to a tomahawk head. The length of an axe or tomahawk handle is linked to how you want to use it, and the weight of the axe head.

For hard-hitting strokes that you need to cut down trees, or cut up sizeable thickness of limbs, you need a longer handle with a heavy head.

The handle length is tied to the weight of the head, so fitting a very long handle to a small tomahawk head gives no advantage whatsoever, as the limitation in cutting ability is in the weight of the head.

The 2.5kg of a standard axe head has long been found to be an optimal weight for the fairly standard handle length of about 800mm (31" - 32") - but you can get axe handles up to 915mm (36") - which are more suited to tall people.

The ideal length of handle for a tomahawk head is around 610mm to 660mm (24" to 26"), any longer than that, and you gain nothing, and a longer handle can make swinging the tomahawk more awkward.

A tomahawk is simply designed for carrying lightness, and for light chopping actions as in cutting up small limbs. Trying to chop down a tree with a tomahawk, even with a long handle, will be a painfully slow exercise.

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by onetrack

[APenNameAndThatA]

2 hours ago, onetrack said:

You'll gain no advantage from fitting a regular-size handle to a tomahawk head. The length of an axe or tomahawk handle is linked to how you want to use it, and the weight of the axe head.

For hard-hitting strokes that you need to cut down trees, or cut up sizeable thickness of limbs, you need a longer handle with a heavy head.

The handle length is tied to the weight of the head, so fitting a very long handle to a small tomahawk head gives no advantage whatsoever, as the limitation in cutting ability is in the weight of the head.

The 2.5kg of a standard axe head has long been found to be an optimal weight for the fairly standard handle length of about 800mm (31" - 32") - but you can get axe handles up to 915mm (36") - which are more suited to tall people.

The ideal length of handle for a tomahawk head is around 610mm to 660mm (24" to 26"), any longer than that, and you gain nothing, and a longer handle can make swinging the tomahawk more awkward.

A tomahawk is simply designed for carrying lightness, and for light chopping actions as in cutting up small limbs. Trying to chop down a tree with a tomahawk, even with a long handle, will be a painfully slow exercise.

 

Thank you for your reply. I am amazed at some of the things people on this site know about. The original handle was Only about 300 mm and the current one is 800 mm, so changing the handle still would have been worth it by your measurements of what is ideal. I don't doubt that cutting down a tree with it will be a painful experience, so I hope that any one that I have to cut down is small. Also, at 193 cm, I'm pretty tall. Occasionally, I have chopped down trees right at the base, and having the full handle length available to me was handy so I did not have to bend down too much. (My understanding is that all adults have their hands about the same distance from the ground, FWIW.)

 

Given that E= mV^2, (energy = mass times the square of the velocity), I would have thought that a longer handle would have made the axe head faster and therefore have more kinetic energy to be converted into cutting the wood. But, it is an empirical question, so maybe I will find that the handle is too long. 

 

Another option is those chainsaw-chain-like survival things that people can use to chop down trees. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by APenNameAndThatA

[facthunter]

That's what Fire fighting people do in an emergency. They don't use axes. Nev

[kgwilson]

I'd just take a battery chainsaw. You can cut down trees cut firewood or make a sculpture if you get bored.

[APenNameAndThatA]

9 hours ago, facthunter said:

That's what Fire fighting people do in an emergency. They don't use axes. Nev

I didnt explain very well about what I meant by chainsaws. A pruning saw would be almost as light. 

[APenNameAndThatA]

33 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

I'd just take a battery chainsaw. You can cut down trees cut firewood or make a sculpture if you get bored.

Popular mechanics *loves* this product. Called a pruner but is actually a chainsaw with an 8 cm blade. Runs for “up to 25 minutes”. 1.5 kg unfortunately. Looks *fun*. 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Weight is the issue here and the weight is mainly in the axe head. I would rather try and chop down a tree with the longer handled one, but the other ideas seem better, like the small electric chainsaw and the hand-chain with two handles.

[facthunter]

Chainsaws Jamb frequently if the gap closes. The strap one would be hard to free and awkward to use. Something like a coarse set woodman's bow saw would be fine.  Nev

[onetrack]

That hand-operated chainsaw is about as useful as a hip pocket in a singlet. You'd probably get a tree down faster by gnawing at it like a beaver. 

The Stihl Pruner is only 10V and doesn't cut anything bigger than 40mm thick branches. Not exactly the sort of thing you'd use to clear fallen trees or acquire firewood.

The small 36V battery-powered chainsaws are quite good, but expensive, and a bit heavy to carry for lightweight camping.

A well-sharpened machete is an exceptionally capable cutting/chopping device in the right hands.

[spacesailor]

HMMM

As I have a Few years of ' chopping Alluminium ' under my belt .

IT is far different to chopping wood !.

That long handle will save your back , & the ight head will save your shins , feet & legs. 

Much depends on ' Control ' of that cutting blade , 

I did not chop to release trapped people But to disassemble the whole aircraft .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

Don't use one on the Hummel.  Chop Chop. Nev

[kgwilson]

Chainsaws are very dangerous instruments and can be purchased by anyone & now with cheap Chinese models cost is not a prohibitor. I am a qualified Chainsaw Instructor for NSW SES and the dangers of kickbacks and jamming binds are well trained so these issues a minimised. They are a great tool in the right hands. Chainsaw pruners are just that, pruners for unskilled and lazy people. There are lots of these available in Aliexpress for a little as $40.00. They have no chain lubrication & the gears are plastic. The Stihl at $299.00 is better but still pretty useless

[facthunter]

A Chainsaw is deadly dangerous for the careless. Flesh cuts faster than wood..   Nev

[Yenn]

The chainsaw may be dangerous, but there is very little training given to those who buy cheap ones. Funnily we don't hear much about chainsaw accidents, maybe they don't happen. An axe can also give a pretty serious wound and there is even less instruction given. I had absolutely no instruction on using an axe, but I have never had an accident with one. I used to sing a six pound axe in England and thought the four pounders used here were sissy. Funny thing I was chopping much softer timber in England with the six pounder and i now prefer the four pounder for use with our hardwoods. The chainsaw  users with SES have to be fully trained and keep up there qualifications, but they didn't hesitate to call me to do a job they couldn't handle during a cyclone. They were aware that I wouldn't be using all the safety gear and preferred tp cast a blind eye. The use of a little axe head on a long handle will give it a bit more bite, due to the increased speed, but it's real use is for chopping that needs greater accuracy.

[Bosi72]

May I ask what is the case scenario for having an axe in an aeroplane?

[onetrack]

In commercial aircraft, to assist the Captain and FO in a rapid exit from a crashed wreck, or to smash apart panels to find the cause of a cockpit fire. The FAA mandates it under Sec. 91.513

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.513

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/crash_axe#:~:text=crash axe

 

In a light aircraft, maybe not so much of a requirement.

If you're camping out, as APenName appears to be doing with his flight travels, useful for gathering wood to set a signal bonfire, after you've incurred a forced landing, and you forgot your PLB! 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by onetrack

[APenNameAndThatA]

19 minutes ago, Bosi72 said:

May I ask what is the case scenario for having an axe in an aeroplane?

Going camping. 

[APenNameAndThatA]

7 minutes ago, onetrack said:

In commercial aircraft, to assist the Captain and FO in a rapid exit from a crashed wreck, or to smash apart panels to find the cause of a cockpit fire. The FAA mandates it under Sec. 91.513

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.513

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/crash_axe#:~:text=crash axe

 

In a light aircraft, maybe not so much of a requirement.

If you're camping out, as APenName appears to be doing with his flight travels, useful for gathering wood to set a signal bonfire, after you've incurred a forced landing, and you forgot your PLB! 

 

TBH, I’m amazed again. Do you have a thing for axes? 

Edited October 11, 2022 by APenNameAndThatA

[onetrack]

I've spent more than my fair share of time, chopping up a substantial amount of timber and firewood, with a big variety of axes!

It's worth going along to a woodchop competition, just to see how much wood a smooth axeman can remove in the fastest time, with the minimum number of perfectly-aimed cuts!

[Bosi72]

Thanks, I believe we don't discuss airliners here. 

 

For emergencies, tree leaves will make more smoke than big logs.

 

Adding little mogas/avgas will make instant bright light at night time.

 

Whilst axes, chainsaws are great tools, in emergencies a vhf/uhf, plb, torch, mobile phone would be more useful.

 

For camping purposes, I've seen battery chainsaws doing a great job for a small bonfire. 

 

Permitting w&b, I would bring both my axe and Mini Boss, and leave Magnum at home

 🙂

I can't justify buying a titanium or some space material axe (if such exists)

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I like nev's comments about airlines though, and I reckon we can learn a lot from them. But I agree about the axe.