Production of the TU-214 has started in Russia

[Methusala]

This is an example of the real effect of western "sanctions" on the non-western world. Really is a case of "shooting oneself through the leg".

 

https://thesaker.is/the-serial-production-of-the-tu-214-has-started-in-russia/

Edited November 7, 2022 by Methusala

[Methusala]

I wrote recently, in another thread here, that Boeing relied for its manufactured titanium components on a Russian company , as did Airbus. I apologise - I got that partly wrong. Truth is that Boeing stopped relying on them in March but Airbus still do. Boeing stated that there were enough parts in stock to satisfy current demands. Sooner or later they will use all of this stock and, perhaps by then, they expect Russia to have fallen to the US planned Russian capitulation. Good luck with that.

[facthunter]

Starting manufacture of a Civilian Airliner in a war is pretty Surreal when you are causing a world recession and widespread Famine and your WORD has no meaning.,   Nev

[Garfly]

1 hour ago, Methusala said:

This is an example of the real effect of western "sanctions" on the non-western world. Really is a case of "shooting oneself through the leg".

 

https://thesaker.is/the-serial-production-of-the-tu-214-has-started-in-russia/

So, Vladimir Vladimirovich has been working to a rational plan, after all.    ;- )

[Methusala]

1 minute ago, Garfly said:

So, Vladimir Vladimirovich has been working to a rational plan, after all.    ;- )

I hope so.

[Garfly]

11 minutes ago, Methusala said:

I hope so.

However heedless he is to cost?

[facthunter]

Nero fiddled while ROME burned.  Nev

[Garfly]

Like you, Don, I have a soft spot for Russia, but maybe a different one,

more like the Russia of this vlogger, Vlad Vexler.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Garfly

[Methusala]

I've learned to hate the Russians
All through my whole life
If another war comes
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on our side

(But if God's on our side,

He'll stop the next war)

 

Thank you Bob Dylan, Poet and prophet to my life.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Methusala
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[Garfly]

 

 

If the Republicans win the House tomorrow and Trump the White House in '24

there's a good chance that Americans will learn to love Russia, after all (as long as Vlad's still there).

 

Anyway, we're not the only ones inspired by Dylan's message, Don:

 

‘I have a message for Putin’:

Ukrainian artist covers Bob Dylan’s ‘Masters of War’ at SXSW

The song was originally written by Dylan to protest the looming Cold War, and includes the lyrics: ‘And I hope that you die/ And your death will come soon... And I’ll stand over your grave/ ‘Til I’m sure that you’re dead’... Oleksandra Zaritska, known as Sasha, was the only member of electronic-folk band Kazka able to attend their 2022 showcase. Her bandmates were obliged to stay in Ukraine to defend their country amid the ongoing invasion by Russia, or volunteer to help their fellow citizens.

 

She reportedly enlisted a group of local musicians as her support band, including Charlie Sexton – Bob Dylan’s longtime guitarist – who joined her for a dramatic closing performance.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/kazka-sasha-sxsw-bob-dylan-ukraine-b2040251.html#comments-area

[onetrack]

And I guess this new Tupolev will have a similar crash record to all the previous models of Tupolevs?

 

https://www.1001crash.com/transport-page-plane_database-lg-2-aviation-tupolev-plane-accident-aeronautical-history.html

[spenaroo]

going of those statistics, time to swap to Tupolev
 

32 Airbuses crashed since 2000

https://www.1001crash.com/index-page-plane_database-lg-2-aviation-airbus-plane-accident-aeronautical-history.html

 

101 Boeings
https://www.1001crash.com/transport-page-plane_database-lg-2-aviation-boeing-plane-accident-aeronautical-history.html

[onetrack]

I think you need to compare the total production numbers of each brand to reach a better comparison.

[facthunter]

And the circumstances of the Prangs as well as the operational history  revealing design faults.. Russian aeronautics and space achievements rank pretty well for any  Country  let alone one like Russia is/was. Nev

[spenaroo]

don't forget the standards of the operators. which is I think the biggest difference.

I don't think any of us would refuse to fly an L-39, or any local maintained MIG or AN-2.

interesting to see the different perception of Tupolev vs Antonov. both came out of soviet engineering. one just has a different flag painted on it since the 90's

 

lets not forget that most of the current commercial rocket motors are based on soviet designs. at one point NASA was getting the RD-180 direct from Russia

[Methusala]

This conflict is a tragedy of enormous proportions which began even prior to the western backed coup  (in 2014) which replaced elected leadership with NATO backed puppets. Eastern provinces of largely Russian speaking people have been shelled and bombed for 8 years by western Ukrainian forces    (over 15,000 dead).

Now, these forces are facing strong, well equipped, Russian defenders on an r2p mission.

However NATO and the west see this as a way to weaken and defeat Russia at the continuing cost of Ukrainian people's lives and infrastructure.

The whole scenario has been carefully cooked up by NATO and the US for decades. This "unprovoked attack" line is simply propaganda.

Our media is part and parcel of this conspiracy.

[Garfly]

But that Punch and Judy (West on Russia) narrative doesn't wash from the viewpoint of Russia's neighbours and ex-vassal states who want to be left alone to be themselves.  Ask Georgia and Kazakhstan for starters.  I've spent time with friends and colleagues in Estonia, Lithuania and Poland as well as having dear friends in Moscow. I've also known folks among the Russian minority in Narva on Estonia's eastern border with Russia.  I think I get all their perspectives.  Basically, Russian's are resentful and furious at their neighbours for not wanting to be part of the glorious empire anymore.  A bit like the way the British were furious with the Indian mutineers. "You really want to risk losing this clearly superior culture we've bestowed on you!?"

 

Anyway, for self-absorbed / self-critical Westerners (and I admit I'm one) to insist that this is mostly all about US and THEM is an insult to the people who've lived before under the Russian empire and are now in danger of being reabsorbed. The notion that Russia has a right and a reason to fear the West equivalent to its neighbours' right and reason to fear Russia, is ludicrous and disingenuous.

 

Bob Dylan did have it right but his message was universal:

 

To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on our side

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Garfly

[facthunter]

I have a theory that Putin flipped his lid when T ABot threatened to Shirt-front him. He came to the G7 with a Battleship offshore, probably nuclear armed. . Putin must have been scared out of his wits. Nev

[onetrack]

Quote

The whole scenario has been carefully cooked up by NATO and the US for decades. This "unprovoked attack" line is simply propaganda.

What a lot of rubbish. You must have been watching and listening only to Putins rigidly-regulated Russian State media. Putin is a warmonger and a former totally ruthless East German KGB spy, whose whole life has been dedicated to the destruction of Western democracy and NATO. His seething hatred of NATO goes back decades. If Putin was so honest, upright and well-intentioned, he'd have garnered a substantial number of world Allies for his "SMO".

 

Instead, the only Allies he's garnered, amount to a tiny number of countries run under ruthless dictatorships, or by religious fundamentalists, that you can count on one hand.

 

Even the line that "the Ukraine is full of Nazis, and Ukraine must undergo de-nazification" (words straight from Putins mouth) is straight-out BS, on a par with Trumps hate-filled dialogues.

 

Then, to try and say that Russia's actions in Ukraine are a scenario "cooked up by NATO and the U.S." is laughable, when you see the actions of the Russian military in the Ukraine have simply been indiscriminate bombing of civilians, and nothing to do with "denazification" and finding the Nazis that are reputedly the seat of Russia's problems.

 

https://theconversation.com/putins-claim-to-rid-ukraine-of-nazis-is-especially-absurd-given-its-history-177959

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by onetrack

[facthunter]

To be against Putin is a risk to life. Look at how many are disappeared when they oppose him in any way. IF he is a really good bloke would that be necessary? He's also stretched every rule to stay in Power. Typical of tyrants and he's filthy rich. Another bad sign. and HE controls the media. KGB  training isn't exactly Madame Dilly-Popkin's Finishing School. Nev

[Methusala]

1 hour ago, Garfly said:

The notion that Russia has a right and a reason to fear the West equivalent to its neighbours' right and reason to fear Russia, is ludicrous and disingenuous.

 

To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal.” — Henry Kissinger quote.

 

It's fine to quote the views of people who lived under the USSR's Warsaw Pact. Russia has lived since 1991 with a western alliance creeping closer with deadly offensive capabilities installed in such countries (Poland and Romania with missile bases capable of launching nuclear warheads on  their virtual doorstep).

 

The narrative constantly changes in the west. Most people realised, ante the Vietnamese war, where the US was defeated, but the advertised consequence of dominoes falling like 9 pins didn't happen, that this war was wrong. I clearly remember Rumsfeld claiming, pre the illegal destruction of Iraq, that this would be,"A cake walk". Well they destroyed the place but with 1 million innocents dead and nothing to show. Then Libya, the most advanced country in Africa (Free universal health scheme and education), now a war torn wreck. Syria, where the US is occupying the N/E corner and stealing the country's oil.

What was the reason for all of this destruction? What is our huge concern with this military action on the other side of the world? Incidentally, Ukraine was called one of the most corrupt countries in the world by the EU in 2019.

No one can know the truth in such circumstances but I can't help but wonder why there is such overwhelming hatred directed towards Russia and its leader, Vladimir Putin. Surely the US has caused far more death and misery in the post war era than any other country. Why would you trust such people?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Methusala
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[Garfly]

By the way, Don - and anyone else with an affection for the best of Russia - this is an amazing full length feature film from 20 years ago; a kind of dream/fantasy which looks back over Russia's complicated history with Europe.  Anyone willing to give it a go (preferably on a big screen) and to hang in there with the subtitles, will be well rewarded, I reckon.  And from a filmmaking angle The Russian Ark is legendary, in that the whole thing is done in one take. Incredible!  (The making-of story is almost as fascinating as the film itself.)  For more info:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Ark

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I have spent time in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan and a short time in Moscow. They all detest the Russians and the Russians don't have the mental vocabulary to understand why.

[facthunter]

NOW NOW that's a bit rough but the US has much to answer for as did the brits before them. America freaks out if anyone gets helped in the society.. Nev

[RossK]

If you think this war is about anything but oil and gas, you're kidding yourself.

If Putin was genuinely concerned for the russian people in the 2 eastern states of Ukraine, he had all the military power to simply annexe them and defend them against all-comers.

But that's not what has happened. He has waged a country wide annihilation of a people.

The US are no better in their motives (oil and gas) when invading other countries either, but to their credit, their military precision (since Vietnam) gets it done with significantly lower collateral damage and significanlty less political and global anti-US fallout.