MARAP for Jabiru / Rotax

[GolfWhiskeyHotel]

I have just about finished fitting a Rotax to a J160.  The RAA reg. Form (Tech form 14) requires that I identify other aircraft that have had a similar conversion.  Quote"I have supporting documentation such as independent engineering advice or history of safe operation from elsewhere."  Can or will anyone that has such a modification please let me know in the form of a statement that they have had X hours of safe operation? There is no liability attached to such a statement.  Any information from anyone having gone through the registration of such a modification would be a great help, Thanks, Geoff Higgins.

[Neil_S]

Hi GWH,

 

There's been one at Lethbridge for years.

I don't have the contact details but if you call the number listed in the ERSA for Lethbridge I am sure they can put you in touch.

 

Cheers,

Neil

[kasper]

I hate to be a spoiler BUT MARAP is VERY prescriptive as it will remain a factory built aircraft and available to use as such.

 

1. history of safe ops has to be EXACTLY the same modification:

     a. same model of JAB (not a JAB LSA55 with Rotax but another J160)

     b. same modifications (eg same design and manufacture of the engine mounts, exact same engine - not 80 vs 100hp, same accessories and same mods to the cowls)

2. Jabiru will still need to provide a notice of no objection (its their airframe)

 

Overall you need very specific support for a MARAP and it will still take a lot of time.  I would clarify with RAAus Tech exactly what will be accepted before gathering it or you will be quite frustrated to discover further down the track that you have not got the required bits.

[GolfWhiskeyHotel]

AH , OK , Then I will go down the E reg road.  Thanks for the information.

[Keith W]

What’s involved in changing horror aircraft to E24 and what’s the cost thanks Keith.

[Keith W]

Bloody spell check should be your aircraft

[facthunter]

It's got a strange sense of humour though.   Nev

[Old Koreelah]

I turned spell check, etc. off to stop it Americanising my writing. Also to give my aging brain some useful work to do.

[Neil_S]

19 hours ago, Keith W said:

What’s involved in changing horror aircraft to E24 and what’s the cost thanks Keith.

Hi Keith,

 

I recently transferred my Savannah (not a horror aircraft, just an over-regulated LSA!) from 24 to E24.

Here's what is involved :-

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Thanks for considering for the ELSA CofA re-issue. Here is a list of points that are required

 

1.            Place the letter “E” in front of the 23 or 24 on both sides of the fuselage registration.

2.            Add an “Experimental” placard in clear view - image attached for reference size should be about 50mm high and 300mm long or there abouts.

3.            Complete the attached application-CASA form 682

4.            Install the updated ELSA warning placard- Sample attached.

 

’WARNING PERSONS FLY IN THIS AIRCRAFT AT THEIR OWN RISK

THIS AIRCRAFT IS NOT OPERATED TO THE SAME SAFETY STANDARDS AS A NORMAL

COMMERCIAL PASSENGER FLIGHT

CASA DOES NOT SET AIRWORTHINESS STANDARDS FOR EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT’

 

5.            Provide a copy of the last logbook entry with a TTIS and engine and propeller serial numbers

6.            Provide images of the placards and registration and an image of the entire aircraft for the CoA.

 

The cost of the ELSA CofA with the approval for flight over built areas is $770

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

You will need to send the details to Darren Barnfield who is the CASA-authorised person. His email is :-  [email protected] 

 

You can Google "CASA form 682" to get the form. You will also need to submit your current C of A, which you can get from the RAAus website. 

 

Good luck!

Cheers,

Neil

[Keith W]

Thanks Neil 

[GolfWhiskeyHotel]

RE: Rotax/Jabiru 160C Well, things have moved along.  The aircraft is finished and I'm on the road to MARAP. Unfortunately there is no other way.

The weight and balance was done today. Empty weight came out a couple of kilos over the original 302, and the C of G is in the correct range. So things progress.

AS the 160c is a Certified aircraft it has to follow the MARAP path. ( I really dont understand  "Certified' and LSA, Why Certified? I can't follow it at all) 

I wish it were otherwise. I had no idea that the 160C was particularly singled out for this. RAA has been helpful so far. 

But, I WILL need examples of safe operation of a Rotax Powered Jabiru 160

There must be a couple around. Please raise your hand.

[facthunter]

As I see it you are in the same "boat" as a VH plane and doing the paperwork for even the simplest of modifications is a dog's breakfast.  Nev

[Neil_S]

On 24/04/2023 at 11:18 PM, GolfWhiskeyHotel said:

RE: Rotax/Jabiru 160C Well, things have moved along.  The aircraft is finished and I'm on the road to MARAP. Unfortunately there is no other way.

The weight and balance was done today. Empty weight came out a couple of kilos over the original 302, and the C of G is in the correct range. So things progress.

AS the 160c is a Certified aircraft it has to follow the MARAP path. ( I really dont understand  "Certified' and LSA, Why Certified? I can't follow it at all) 

I wish it were otherwise. I had no idea that the 160C was particularly singled out for this. RAA has been helpful so far. 

But, I WILL need examples of safe operation of a Rotax Powered Jabiru 160

There must be a couple around. Please raise your hand.

 

Hi,

 

I was talking to a mate yesterday who flies a 160, and does aircraft maintenance himself - he said there are about 6 Rotax-powered Jabs around that he is aware of. 

If you want I can send you his number in a PM. Also try contacting Lethbridge airport and ask them for the number of a guy called Robert who has a Rotax-powered Jab.

I've spoken to him in the past and I'm sure he can supply confirmation of several year's worth of safe operation.

 

Cheers,

Neil

[sfGnome]

I used to hire 24-4669 which was a Rotax powered 160. No idea where it is now, but if it’s still flying then it should be traceable. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by sfGnome

[Blueadventures]

21 hours ago, sfGnome said:

I used to hire 24-4669 which was a Rotax powered 160. No idea where it is now, but if it’s still flying then it should be traceable. 

May be at Caboolture, a rego check with RAAus may say.

[Blueadventures]

21 hours ago, sfGnome said:

I used to hire 24-4669 which was a Rotax powered 160. No idea where it is now, but if it’s still flying then it should be traceable. 

How did it handle?  Have you flown Jab powered 160's and if so how do they compare.  Cheers.

[sfGnome]

27 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

How did it handle?  Have you flown Jab powered 160's and if so how do they compare.  Cheers.

No, I’ve never flown a Jab powered anything. As for its handling, I really only have reasonable experience on that plane and a Tecnam - both Rotax powered - so it seemed fine to me. 

[440032]

Surely RAAus knows of Robert's Jabiru 170 19-4576?

[RossK]

[RossK]

[GolfWhiskeyHotel]

Thanks everyone. I have a couple of numbers to work with.  Although I would have thought that RAA would have known who has the Rotax powered Jabiru's. 

The aircraft has an  "Experimental" sticker on the side. I stuck the decals on in anticipation of E reg.

When I try to remove them the paint comes off!!!

[tillmanr]

GWH, have you tried warming the decals with a hair dryer.  It is normally enough to soften the adhesive. Don’t just keep the heat on a small spot rather gradually warm up maybe half the word. 

[GolfWhiskeyHotel]

So Far So Good