Guest Cralis Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I completed my second lesson, and was much happier. It was 'Straight and Level'. Not as easy as it sounds, but was good... Craig’s Blog Lesson 2: Straight and Level Look for comments and any errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Macnoz Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Well done Craig. I notice two things -- well more but not needed for discussion at this stage. But you mention switching off the ignition first and then the two power switches. I presume by ignition you mean master switch in which case this should be last off so as not to damage the charging circuit An by two power switches you mean the DCDI switches which should first be checked by turning each off and then back on before turning both off. Or maybe you mean something else – like a combined master / alternator switch John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 good stuff mate... raisning the nose first, then reducing power..thats different.. whatever works i spose..;)..try reducing power and holding attitude, then as speed reduces raise the nose... have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cralis Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Thanks guys. Macnoz, not sure of the buttons and the way it happens. It's all written from memory, so hoping people will correct errors. I will call my instructor for him to clarrify it and update the blog. All I know is I did something too early, and the engine stopped abruptly... I'll get the right info soon. Motz - thanks. The book says 'P.A.T'. Power, Attitude, Trim. I think the P and & would be done close toi the same time when you get it done properly? Will try follow the PAT norm, but again, will chat to my instructor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Exactly, power-attitude-trim, not attitude- power-trim...;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Exactly, power-attitude-trim, not attitude- power-trim...;) Except of course when you think about what you do when you level off from a climb and want the a/c to accelerate.... Hey Cralis, nice blog. Here's my challenge to you: After you fly each time debrief with your instructor and make notes...so that your blog is spot on as far as the lesson is concerned. That'll mean two thing: firstly Merv won't throw rocks from the sidelines ;-) and more importantly you will have done a very thorough debrief and made sure that you understand the lesson entirely. Has your instructor talked about Angle of Attack yet? Let us know when he has and we'll talk about some important aspects of AoA related to the work you did in lesson two. Go well. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cralis Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Thanks Mike. I'll do that. It's just that dirtectly after my flight, I'm bushed. But I agree that it's important, and will do next time. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLA82 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 .Has your instructor talked about Angle of Attack yet? Let us know when he has and we'll talk about some important aspects of AoA related to the work you did in lesson two. Sorry guys but wouldn't it be a good idea to let the instructor instruct, I know we all are here to learn but since when do we get our pilot certificte of the net??? Just a thought, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Hehe.. wasn't throwing rocks mate..;)... just clearing it up for him, thats all..(and the thread starter did ask to be corrected..) ( i sometimes work on the assumption that other students read these threads to.. don't want to muddy the waters now do we Mike??) save the rocks for the dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 We should always let the instructor "instruct" but we also know that: 1. All instructors are different and instruct differently - all students learn differently so how does the student know if there is a mismatch in teaching/learning styles? 2. There are good instructors and there are bad instructors - how is the student to know if he is being instructed properly unless they can ask for other opinions in a medium such as we have here 3. If a student takes in 25% of the theory that they are learning then they are going really well - we can let the instructor instruct but the student will consume much more knowledge if being able to discuss what they are learning in an unforced (as in not the time instant they are being taught) manner and in many different ways with many different people. The only issue with this though is quality that can suffer from diversity but it is hoped that majority would be the self correcting quality enhancer As a foot note Mike's (Pelorus32) knowledge in aviation theory would put many well learned people to shame, if Mike talks, I listen - now Mike, have I got a job for you...you have seen our new quizzes here....well you see it is like this... motzartmerv - I will give you a phone call about the rock throwing as soon as I can steal some time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPete Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Discussing your lesson on line is not much different than doing it at the clubrooms. :thumb_up: The advantage here is a much bigger audience (with a lot of experience) and you can review what they/we said. ;) Your blog should be an inspiration to other members who are yet to have their first lesson. It's a huge task and I congratulate you on a very good start, :thumb_up: do keep it going, it is the essence of these forums. We are all different, some of us are so laid back we are nearly horizontal, while others up front, upright and ready to blast off. But we all share the passion, otherwise we wouldn't be here. Your job is to sort the wheat from the chaff. Looking forward to your next lesson. :thumb_up: regards :big_grin::big_grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cralis Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Thanks Ian, Peter. I do understand that there may be issues/errors on my blog, and that's why I've done it. Hoping people will say, 'Craig, you've missunderstood so-and-so. It's more like this....' and explain my error. I'll then update the blog, OR... confirm this with my instructor. But thanks for taking time to read it, guys. Positive feedback makes me more keen to continue. Thanks! :thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shags_j Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Craig I think it's a great blog. Something I've learnt myself: Sometimes there is a theory that you just can't quite grasp from one persons perspective and on later reflection you can't work out an answer. I think this forum is fantastic to help with those problems, I wish it was around when I was starting my flying. I gotta say though, sometimes I finish a thread more confused then when I started... (is it P.A.T. recovering from climb or A.P.T....) Anyways, happy flying. Cheers, Shags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLA82 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 We should always let the instructor "instruct" but we also know that:1. All instructors are different and instruct differently 2. There are good instructors and there are bad instructors - how is the student to know if he is being instructed properly unless they can ask for other opinions in a medium such as we have here 3. If a student takes in 25% of the theory that they are learning then they are going really well - we can let the instructor instruct but the student will consume much more knowledge if being able to discuss what they are learning in an unforced (as in not the time instant they are being taught) As a foot note Mike's (Pelorus32) knowledge in aviation theory would put many well learned people to shame, Ian, They are all very valid points but my concern is this, Your Point 1, every instructor is different yes, we all should ask questions but when those questions are being answered by 10-12 different people all it ends up in is confusion. The student will be in the air doing a revision lesson on lets say straight and level and the instructor will ask a question, it is then the student gives an answer on what joe, bob, frank has told him and the instructor is like "where the hell did you get that from? Your point 2, yes there is good and bad instructors but how on earth can a student who is learning from scratch tell the difference. The student gets told one thing face to face then another on a forum who's a bad one and who's a good one? Your Point 3, A student is lucky to take in 25%, thats probably true buts that is 25% of a syllabus and a set lesson structure between instructor and student. Get another 10 people's opinions in the mix and that so called 25% now is next to nothing. It maybe lots of random knowledge but no good to a learning pilot who is alreday struggling to keep it all in. I am in no way bagging this part of the forum, it is a good knowledge source but at the correct time. How about us students(me inclusive) get the basics down pat then absorb others theories on the fact. Just remember all instructors pass the same course to do what they do so obviously there isn't good and bad ones, maybe just ones that can't pass on their knowledge as good as others and if thats the case it should be looked at by the student . In my opinion when you make the commitment to train with an instructor you put your trust in them, if you doubt what they are saying there is always a choice.And as far as Pelorus knowledge is concerned I have no doubt in his capabilities it shines through in all his posts but I wasn't comenting on who was wrong and who was right here, just maybe a quick thought for the students instead of seing who knows most. I am sure that instructors who have comented on this thread would be pretty shirty if we all second guess them. Just a thought You can throw rocks at me know :big_grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 shags.. sorry for the confusion.. if i wasn't so worried about people saying im throwing rocks id probably explain a bit better.. PAT is the sequence for Entering a climb, descending slowing down and speeding up.. APT is used when levelling off from a climb.. If you think about it its quite logical, if you were to use PAT when levelling off, you'd have the acft in a nose high attitude and be reducing power, which isn't the best.. Some instructors may teach differnetly..( is that a rock???) cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shags_j Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 No I'm cool with all the theory. It's just that with these threads you tend to get confused by the end of it and start second guessing yourself. Don't get me wrong, I love to have a place to sound of ideas that you may be a bit hazy on but it's a simple fact that with all the answers it can be confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cralis Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I gotta say though, sometimes I finish a thread more confused then when I started... (is it P.A.T. recovering from climb or A.P.T....) This is what I am sitting with now. I'm nearly certain my instructor is A.P.T, but the book prescribed by the school definitly says P.A.T. I spoke to another student of the schools, and he said that my school prefers A.P.T.... so I've been trying to get hold of my instructor for clarrification today. Buggers out flying about .. while I sit here at a desk. :( (Note, this is during my S&L lesson, so... no climbing... just for slowing down and speeding up) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shags_j Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 OUt of interest, my instructor at the time and bob tait are both APT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLA82 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Shags and Cralis, Do you think what I wrote in my post today refers to what you guys are talking about now, confusion from to many sources? Cralis I know you said you were contacting your instructor so this wasn't a dig at you just I can see how confusing it all gets with everyones finger in the pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Like i said.. some instructors will teach different...and, all acft are different.. Thats why i said "try PAT".. low inertia acft i would think would tend not to climb as much after raising the nose as high inertia acft. So thats probably why it still works in ultralights..But if you raise the nose at cruise speed the thing will climb won't it?? can we agree on that much for arguments sake..But reducing power and holding attitude, the altitude will remain constant through the manouver, then as speed reduces (so does lift..CL1/2pV2S) you raise the nose to get more lift to overcome the lift lost with reduced speed...thats my thinking anyway..Its all there in the lift formula..Lift will..WILL be increased by raising the nose.. so the acft Will climb.. Like Cralis said, its almost done together anyway. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shags_j Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 LOL. Now i'm really confused :yuk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cralis Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Thanks guys. I'll be honest, I'm not at all confused. I'm just trying to establish which is the way I was told, and therefore, which way I'll most likely be doing it for the next 20+ hours. BLA82, you're using the same instructor as me (now that he's back from his trip). Which way does he show you? Maybe it's different between the trike you're flying and the Tecnam I'm flying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Yea man.. please don't think im saying your instructor has it wrong... like i said, evryones diff and planes are different.. im sure he's teaching you the best way for that acft.. listen to what he says... all im trying to show you is the theory behind whats happening, and why I, ME, MYSELF, do it the other way... Shags, you know the lift formula?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shags_j Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Ignore me i'm being facetious. I know what I"m doing (i hope) since I've done a couple of solo hours at archerfield. L = cL * 1/2Rho * Vsquared * SA (if i remember correctly, learnt at age 15 in Air Cadets). All i'm saying is I can't follow this thread... It's freaking me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relfy Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Just keep up the good thread Cralis, it is great to share your experiences. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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