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5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

1901 would have been Commonwealth Day or Federation Day.

Or Australia day, when Australia became a nation.

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Just now, Glenn1 said:

Or Australia day, when Australia became a nation.

I know what you're getting at but Phillip claimed the whole continent for Britain; Britain effectively carved it into six sovereign states (six countries) each with its Governor General reporting back to the King. A bit like the US, they knew they would have more clout as united states, but they didn't want to lose their controlling powers. For one thing there were toll booths at each border and import/export taxes between states. They agonised over how to band together for about 53 years before reaching agreement, and when they formed the Commonwealth they gave it limited powers, and kept most of their own. We even went to war as a combined Australian group before the Commonwealth was formed. Even today the Commonwealth Government can't set National Motor Vehicle regulations; The transport industry wants standard truck lengths and axle loadings to be the same Australia-wide and the only way to do this has been to set up a Commonwealth Body, the National Heavy Vehicle Regulator which operates as a partner with the States, and already there are signs of cracks.

If Britain in 1901 had decided abolish all states and have the Commonwealth run the country as one, it would have been a bigger step, but the flag was planted to take possession of  Australia, the land, on January 26.

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2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

We had no sanction over them

 

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

We had no liability, but I decided to make a visit at the next meeting.

 

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

so, still holding my two I used a foot to trip one and pushed the other over using one of my drivers as a battering ram.

 

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

He said he didn't have the power to do that, I told him to bluff and he said he would take care of it

These are not things to be proud of.  

 

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

I have to live with what we are dealt the same as anyone else.

Well aware of it. But by the sounds of it there's a lot of "Do as I say not as I do".

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I thought I made it obvious we had no powers except a breathalyser. You draw your conclusion if you want but the bad behaviour stopped that day. 

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12 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

"..............................................................................................

But for the rebellious Irish element among the convicts, Australia might easily have followed the example of Latin America: John MacArthur and the Rum Corps tried to set up a landed aristocracy, supported by ex-convict serfs.

It would seem that Macarthur was/is the blue print (more or less) for all his Australian entrepreneur and political heirs - a thoroughly unpleasant scoundrel whom the bureaucracy of the day couldn't/wouldn't deal with appropriately (jail & probably flogging). Yes he started the wool industry and yes his direct heirs were influential in the wine & dairy industries but to out this syphilitic scoundrel on any sort of pedestal is to countenance the means always justifies the ends.

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Fortunately business in Australia was not founded on ancestral lines. If it gives you any comfort one of his descendants couldn’t throw a fleece.

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15 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Fortunately business in Australia was not founded on ancestral lines. If it gives you any comfort one of his descendants couldn’t throw a fleece.

 

And yet the rogue business man/politician seem to be alive and well (maybe even admired) in our society.

 

By good fortune, I have met some of his descendants - perfectly ordinary nice people. So you can transcend the lottery of genetics.

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42 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

I thought I made it obvious we had no powers except a breathalyser. You draw your conclusion if you want but the bad behaviour stopped that day. 

Yes, You made it quite obvious that you had no power but acted as if you did anyway. 

Sometimes I can almost see your human side, then you let your inner Adolf out.

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"You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink; if people don't want to get involved in their sport it eventually slides into the past."

And other's get pushed aside to keep the favorite's clique Happy.

I'll come to your BBQ, drink your wine, but when the conversations are not on the same social level, there's a break-down in any dialog,

Some of us mortals are socially inept. We answer in single syllables,  our vocabulary is on the slender side to put it politely.

WE Just don't fit,

Wrong school tie !, perhaps wrong varsity or club.

Some things "Dumb" ILLITERATE  people excel at. One in particular is an excellent Backyard mechanic, also good at MORSE-CODE, which amazes me.

spacesailor

 

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28 minutes ago, M61A1 said:

Yes, You made it quite obvious that you had no power but acted as if you did anyway. 

Sometimes I can almost see your human side, then you let your inner Adolf out.

 How can helping a Chief Steward break up a fight between two crews fighting on an active race track equate to Adolph Hitler?

And what power did I use that I didn't have?

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In New South Wales we have the Motor Vehicle Sports (Public Safety) Act and Regulations which set out all manner of things relating to the safe conduct of motor vehicle sports in all its organised forms. This Act and Regulations supersede the Speedway Act and Regulations of 1957.

 

According to this legislation, the racetrack Turbo mentioned would not be operating. Police have to be present and can stop any event if there is imminent danger (more danger than expected in racing). Police and also tell an unsafe driver that their racing day is over.

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O M E

"According to this legislation, the racetrack Turbo mentioned would not be operating. Police have to be present and can stop any event if there is imminent danger (more danger than expected in racing). Police and also tell an unsafe driver that their racing day is over."

 

And I believe that would be the reason for much of the HOONing on the roads.

Were in this BIG city would a youngster go to,   Just to put their foot to the metal, Just that one time !.

The thrill that we oldies took for granted, when we went "outback", to raise the dust.

spacesailor

 

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1 hour ago, old man emu said:

In New South Wales we have the Motor Vehicle Sports (Public Safety) Act and Regulations which set out all manner of things relating to the safe conduct of motor vehicle sports in all its organised forms. This Act and Regulations supersede the Speedway Act and Regulations of 1957.

 

According to this legislation, the racetrack Turbo mentioned would not be operating. Police have to be present and can stop any event if there is imminent danger (more danger than expected in racing). Police and also tell an unsafe driver that their racing day is over.

Yes, the change came first in NSW, and almost straight away a cop at our Swan Hill speedway which was on the NSW side of the Murray closed down a meeting because he found someone smoking in the pits. When the Victorian Government said they were going to handover speedway to the police they said they didn’t want it and I said we would self administer. The Minister for Sports and Recreation agreed and we’ve successfully managed it since the beginning of the 1980s. We only ever had that one track stay out of the loop, but gave them copies of our policies and they’ve been running successfully ever since.

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Turbo,

Motor sports in New South Wales have been governed by legislation since 1957. The  Motor Vehicle Sports (Public Safety) Act and accompanying Regulations were just a tidying up of the existing legislation, probably to deal with a wider range of motor sports than existed in 1957.

 

Therefore, if the cop (and I say 'cop' with derision) did what he did, he must either have been a dickhead, or had a grudge against the speedway. What he did shows a complete lack of knowledge of the Law and discretion in applying it.

 

From the Regulations

24   Cessation of races or events

(1)  If the senior police officer on duty at a race meeting is satisfied that any person is in imminent or undue danger if further racing or events are carried on, the officer may direct the clerk of the course or any other person in charge of the conduct of the meeting to cease immediately any racing or event and not to continue until the danger has been removed.

 

Everyone in Swan Hill would know that cop. I wonder how long it was before social pressures on his wife and kids made him apply for a transfer the Kings Cross Police Station where he could continue to be a dickhead, but his family would be anonymous.

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43 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Turbo,

Motor sports in New South Wales have been governed by legislation since 1957. The  Motor Vehicle Sports (Public Safety) Act and accompanying Regulations were just a tidying up of the existing legislation, probably to deal with a wider range of motor sports than existed in 1957.

 

Therefore, if the cop (and I say 'cop' with derision) did what he did, he must either have been a dickhead, or had a grudge against the speedway. What he did shows a complete lack of knowledge of the Law and discretion in applying it.

 

From the Regulations

24   Cessation of races or events

(1)  If the senior police officer on duty at a race meeting is satisfied that any person is in imminent or undue danger if further racing or events are carried on, the officer may direct the clerk of the course or any other person in charge of the conduct of the meeting to cease immediately any racing or event and not to continue until the danger has been removed.

 

Everyone in Swan Hill would know that cop. I wonder how long it was before social pressures on his wife and kids made him apply for a transfer the Kings Cross Police Station where he could continue to be a dickhead, but his family would be anonymous.

Swan Hill town area is all on the Victorian side of the Murray and the track was on the NSW side so there was no local cop. Something changed which required the old cop from Moulamein, about an hour away to attend, and we usually ran on a Saturday night until 1 am Sunday. He wasn't a dickhead, and yes the locals all knew him, and he was really pissed off that he had to be there. He followed up with some roadworthy checks, and eventually the club moved the track back into a wheat paddock in Victoria and he went back to sleeping on Saturday nights.  The old Swan Hill track had a great atmosphere under river redgums, and the club members were great people. I had my first win there, and at the BBQ after the races, I mentioned it would have been better if there had been trophies for the heats. The Club President disappeared for a while and came back with a sash which he ceremoniously put on me. Looked great in the firelight, but the next morning in the motel I saw that the gold lettering read "Miss Swan Hill"!

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13 hours ago, turboplanner said:

 How can helping a Chief Steward break up a fight between two crews fighting on an active race track equate to Adolph Hitler?

And what power did I use that I didn't have?

You make it quite clear that despite having no authority, you barge on into a place and force them to comply to standards you admit they had no requirement to follow, assault people in the process and you can’t see a similarity?

Tell the police to lie about their powers?

It’s not just that though, often your inner authoritarian peaks through when you talk of forcing compliance an weeding out the undesirable minorities.

 

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36 minutes ago, M61A1 said:

You make it quite clear that despite having no authority, you barge on into a place and force them to comply to standards you admit they had no requirement to follow, assault people in the process and you can’t see a similarity?

Tell the police to lie about their powers?

It’s not just that though, often your inner authoritarian peaks through when you talk of forcing compliance an weeding out the undesirable minorities.

 

Put whatever interpretation on it you want.

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 Swan Hill is STILLin Victoria. These are covered by state laws, so that's important. At  about' 95,  my wife and I were assisting in running Classic speed way there and my kids were actively involved in Motorcross.. Some HD groups were trying to get control of some events and we saw that as a problem. Swan Hill had some of the best  well run facilities I've ever seen.  This sort of thing aids the community, giving a channeled outlet for the speed lust, and prevents, (reduces) less regulated hooning  on the roads. Nev

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When you describe the cop from Moulamein as "old", I envisage a bloke who has found himself a quiet little hideaway where he has very little work to do and has become very, very lazy. He'd probably have about six rental properties in Sydney, subsidised rent for his housing in Moulamein, and wouldn't be much bothered by the Brass at local HQ. That type of cop is the type that deserves to be shifted around the State.

 

I thought it was a buzz to be rostered for duty at the Goulburn Speedway on Governor's Hill (before Wakefield Park was developed). 

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Motoring laws and regulations can only be enforced on property which is accepted as being, "open to the public".

If you make it clear to would-be attendees/visitors to any type of "event" that you are hosting, that they are on private property, and the general public is not invited, then all bets are off, trying to enforce road regulations and traffic laws.

However, if you advertise an event and make it clear the public is welcome, then the area you have selected is regarded as being "open to the public", and the coppers can enforce road regulations and traffic laws, accordingly.

Many 4WD owners have found their insurance policy does not cover them on roads that are not gazetted or recognised as a "public thoroughfare". It pays to read the vehicle insurance PDS.

Motor vehicle fatalities on private property are not counted in the road toll. Neither are vehicle crashes on private property recorded under traffic statistics.

If someone causes a fatality on private property with a motor vehicle, they cannot be charged under road regulations and traffic laws - but they can be charged with manslaughter.

Civil liability Law comes into play against the property owner, if someone is injured or killed on private property. If the person injured or killed is a trespasser, then there is little likelihood of any successful charges or claim against the property owner.

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6 hours ago, onetrack said:

Motoring laws and regulations can only be enforced on property which is accepted as being, "open to the public".

If you make it clear to would-be attendees/visitors to any type of "event" that you are hosting, that they are on private property, and the general public is not invited, then all bets are off, trying to enforce road regulations and traffic laws.

However, if you advertise an event and make it clear the public is welcome, then the area you have selected is regarded as being "open to the public", and the coppers can enforce road regulations and traffic laws, accordingly.

Many 4WD owners have found their insurance policy does not cover them on roads that are not gazetted or recognised as a "public thoroughfare". It pays to read the vehicle insurance PDS.

Motor vehicle fatalities on private property are not counted in the road toll. Neither are vehicle crashes on private property recorded under traffic statistics.

If someone causes a fatality on private property with a motor vehicle, they cannot be charged under road regulations and traffic laws - but they can be charged with manslaughter.

Civil liability Law comes into play against the property owner, if someone is injured or killed on private property. If the person injured or killed is a trespasser, then there is little likelihood of any successful charges or claim against the property owner.

While this broadly applies, every State has different legislation, so, for example, if you are in Victoria, The Motor Car Act 1958, Section 3 (1) Interpretation, has a definition of "highway" as "Any street, road, lane, bridge, thoroughfare, or place open to or used by the public for passage with vehicles."  If you close your front gate, it's private property, but if you have a farm property where you routinely leave the front gate open its a "place" open to the public.  In South Australia after rebuilding my Vincent Comet, I gave it a squirt (unregistered)  an a Service Station apron, and ran a bit wide out into the street just as a cop was approaching. In the ensuing discussion he said "I know you didn't mean to go on to the street, but I still could have booked you on the Service Station apron".

 

There's definitely a precedent case, or several, against a property owner where not only trespassers, but thieves have successfully claimed for injuries. In the one I remember, a thief fell into an open excavation on a farm which didn't have a safe barrier around it. That one was i the dying days of a home being a man's castle.

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Onetrack has expressed things pretty well, just a few clarifications.

ROAD RULES 2014 - REG 12 (NSW)

What is a road

12 WHAT IS A ROAD

(1) A "road" is an area that is open to or used by the public and is developed for, or has as one of its main uses, the driving or riding of motor vehicles.

 

The access road to  a venue, and any parking area is a road by this definition. Police can enforce traffic laws there. Once a venue has a boundary inside which the "public" is not permitted to drive, then the area within the boundary ceases to be a "road".  The movement of motor vehicles within the boundary is then governed by Criminal Law (on a golf course) or law specific to the activity (Motor Racing Act). Of course, commonsense dictates that drivers of vehicles within the boundary would apply a method of driving that reflects the Traffic Laws.

 

As for leaving the farm gate open - any person has the right to approach the front door of your house by the most direct or convenient route if there is nothing permanently blocking the route (a locked gate). That's why you can't prevent evangalisers and charity collectors from coming to your front door.

 

In relation to incidents involving death or injury within the boundaries, action can be taken under the Criminal Law. The offences range from causing Actual Bodily Harm to Murder. There are Legal History reasons why the offence of Culpable Driving was introduced. That is why it is rare to hear of a driver being charged with Manslaughter as a result of a vehicle fatality. Basically, the circumstances of the driving and behaviour of the driver have to be pretty horrendous for a charge of manslaughter to be laid.

 

 

 

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Although the definition of a road is relevant to many traffic offences it is not relevant to many which apply “elsewhere then on a road”. e.g. UIL & Dangerous Operation. Shopping centre carparks & service station driveways etc are all covered in the definitions.

Edited by frank marriott

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