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I went for a little bit of a fly around today in the first really good weather we have had in a while. Warwick to Clifton to Pittsworth and back to Warwick, just a fly around, no landings apart from back at Warwick. Just need to say that CTAF frequency 126.7 is a pain in the posterior. A multitude of radio calls, mostly not very clear about where they are, some who must think it professional to talk at a million miles an hour which really only means you have no idea what the hell they are on about. A lot of them don’t define the field they are talking to, either switching on half way through or not speaking clearly and mostly not repeating the airfield name at the end of the transmission. Not good in my view!

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What altitude were you at? I find the higher you get around here the more transmissions you receive from as far north as Rainbow Beach, Tyagarah to the south and Roma, Goondi, and Wondai. Often though you might only get parts of the transmission, which might explain the lack of clarity.

There is one airfield though, not far from you that seems to use a lot of radio space to say bugger all.

 

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Using a couple of introductory words to prefix the main transmission helps, I think, e.g. "All traffic Warwick..."

 

Finish the transmission with "Traffic Warwick" as well.

 

Clear diction is important also. As an ex-singing teacher, I would recommend the tongue forward in the mouth, not lolling back around the tonsils. Also exaggerate the consonants, e.g. Ss, Ts. Ds etc. up to the point of just short of spitting into the mike because these are high frequency sounds that get lost in the background. A transmission is difficult to understand if all you can hear is vowel sounds.

 

Having said that, I often find that the women pilots and Air Traffic Controllers easier to understand than the men.

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1 hour ago, M61A1 said:

What altitude were you at? I find the higher you get around here the more transmissions you receive from as far north as Rainbow Beach, Tyagarah to the south and Roma, Goondi, and Wondai. Often though you might only get parts of the transmission, which might explain the lack of clarity.

There is one airfield though, not far from you that seems to use a lot of radio space to say bugger all.

 

3,500ft, hearing calls from as far away as Tara (one of the ones that I did understand!)

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35 minutes ago, Possum1 said:

Using a couple of introductory words to prefix the main transmission helps, I think, e.g. "All traffic Warwick..."

 

Finish the transmission with "Traffic Warwick" as well.

 

Clear diction is important also. As an ex-singing teacher, I would recommend the tongue forward in the mouth, not lolling back around the tonsils. Also exaggerate the consonants, e.g. Ss, Ts. Ds etc. up to the point of just short of spitting into the mike because these are high frequency sounds that get lost in the background. A transmission is difficult to understand if all you can hear is vowel sounds.

 

Having said that, I often find that the women pilots and Air Traffic Controllers easier to understand than the men.

Mate, that is exactly my point. I do all of those things, slowly and clearly but no more than necessary information. However, as I said, an awful lot of others have literally appalling radio procedures!

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I went flying today from South Grafton to the coast at Emerald Beach north of Coffs, along the coast & did a circuit around my home at Corindi to Iluka and back up river to YSGR. It is the best day we've had for ages as there was only very high cloud. There were a lot of aircraft in the air but where they were was difficult to establish. Mostly I was between 3500 & 4000 & some of the radio calls were ridiculous. I got Tiagara, Grafton & others from I know not where. There were some inordinately long calls, the pilot seemingly sharing his lifes story. Some gave the aerodrome name at the beginning but not at the end. Others gave some sort of location but no indication of who they were broadcasting to. In 1.3 hours I made 4 calls. Entering the runway with intentions, rolling, 10 mile inbound and joining. No others were necessary & the rest of the time I was listening. I heard one pilot give 4 almost identical calls at 2 or 3 minute intervals so there was no doubt where he was going but unless there is a lot of local traffic, 3 of those calls are unnecessary. I was monitoring the area frequency 122.6 as well but all the calls I heard were on 126.7.

 

There are NO mandatory calls in CTAF unless it is to avoid a collision. CAAP 166-01 v4.2 released last month should be read by all the wallys out there today.

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The first word, and the last word, must the airfield name. Nothing else, no "all stations", no "traffic", no nothing. That's why it goes pear shaped, people doing whatever the hell they want.

 

CAAP 116-01 v4.2 (this weeks) para 6.3.8.

 

(location) traffic,

Aircraft type

Callsign

position/level/intentions

(location)

 

Press button, begin speaking, stop speaking, release button.

Dirt dart planes are the worst for fast talking. It's not cool.

That's it. Simples! (can't do the Meerkat noise...)

 

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9 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

I went flying today from South Grafton to the coast at Emerald Beach north of Coffs, along the coast & did a circuit around my home at Corindi to Iluka and back up river to YSGR. It is the best day we've had for ages as there was only very high cloud. There were a lot of aircraft in the air but where they were was difficult to establish. Mostly I was between 3500 & 4000 & some of the radio calls were ridiculous. I got Tiagara, Grafton & others from I know not where. There were some inordinately long calls, the pilot seemingly sharing his lifes story. Some gave the aerodrome name at the beginning but not at the end. Others gave some sort of location but no indication of who they were broadcasting to. In 1.3 hours I made 4 calls. Entering the runway with intentions, rolling, 10 mile inbound and joining. No others were necessary & the rest of the time I was listening. I heard one pilot give 4 almost identical calls at 2 or 3 minute intervals so there was no doubt where he was going but unless there is a lot of local traffic, 3 of those calls are unnecessary. I was monitoring the area frequency 122.6 as well but all the calls I heard were on 126.7.

 

There are NO mandatory calls in CTAF unless it is to avoid a collision. CAAP 166-01 v4.2 released last month should be read by all the wallys out there today.

Thankyou, that reinforces perfectly my point.

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9 minutes ago, 440032 said:

The first word, and the last word, must the airfield name. Nothing else, no "all stations", no "traffic", no nothing. That's why it goes pear shaped, people doing whatever the hell they want.

 

CAAP 116-01 v4.2 (this weeks) para 6.3.8.

 

(location) traffic,

Aircraft type

Callsign

position/level/intentions

(location)

 

Press button, begin speaking, stop speaking, release button.

Dirt dart planes are the worst for fast talking. It's not cool.

That's it. Simples! (can't do the Meerkat noise...)

 

The book says location then traffic, it probably is better if one says eg ‘traffic Warwick’ rather than ‘Warwick traffic’ because the first word alerts you and even if clipped you will still hear the location (or at least there is more chance!)

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I think you have a point there as you need a 1 second delay from pressing the PTT to starting to talk & some people talk far too quickly so the aerodrome name can get lost. I am a creature of habit from 40 years so always begin with the aerodrome name & end with it as the CAAP says. The aerodrome name at the end is the most important as sometimes when a transmission starts you may have your attention somewhere else, chatting to a passenger etc but once you begin listening you will hear the end aerodrome name & if far away the transmission can be ignored or if close you will know what is happening. If it is close & you didn't hear it all use the "Say Again" syntax for the whole message or "All before... or all after... etc. 

 

What does the RAA radio qualification entail? I have a 40 year old  FRTO licence (Flight Radio Telephone Operator) which I think is now called an AROC (Aeronautical Radio Operator Certificate). Can anyone enlighten me without me having to resort to google.

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"Traffic (location)......"  And there is the problem. Don't worry about what the book says, just invent your own whatever. Sorry, I give up.............. EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!  (Bang....... gone....)

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2 hours ago, derekliston said:

The book says location then traffic, it probably is better if one says eg ‘traffic Warwick’ rather than ‘Warwick traffic’ because the first word alerts you and even if clipped you will still hear the location (or at least there is more chance!)

Saying “Traffic, (location) opens the electret mike and helps ensure that the location is heard.

 

I agree with the comments about 126.7. Seems much worse up north as fewer airstrips in Victoria and many of those have dedicated frequencies other than the Unicom.

 

kaz

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36 minutes ago, 440032 said:

"Traffic (location)......"  And there is the problem. Don't worry about what the book says, just invent your own whatever. Sorry, I give up.............. EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!  (Bang....... gone....)

Might just point out that I abide by the book, I just believe, in common with a lot of CASA stuff, that it could be better!

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4 hours ago, 440032 said:

"Traffic (location)......"  And there is the problem. Don't worry about what the book says, just invent your own whatever. Sorry, I give up.............. EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!  (Bang....... gone....)

While I use the "(location) traffic", the suggest that saying "Traffic (location)' is the problem is blatantly false. Maybe for ATC, who are sitting there with their ears focused on the radio it works, but for those doing the driving while occupied with various other tasks, I have found it much easier to understand those who use "traffic" first, because that first word alerts you to the call when you're busy, but often the content is not heard, whether it's just that you're busy, it was clipped or the transmission you're hearing is poor quality, and if it is a poor quality transmission, (radio or terrible accent) you really need both the first and last to have any idea what they're saying.

Whether location is the first or second word hardly rates as a problem amongst the waffle, the unintelligble accents and crappy radios. Remember that the CAAPs are advisory and CAR requirements are met as long as your location.

AIPs  (3.3-24) state that broadcasts are: All Stations (location) (Appropriate information).

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4 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

I thought the all stations call went out many years ago.

I still think that All stations (location) or All traffic (location) are good prefaces to alert you and to remove the possibility of part of the location word being clipped for the reasons stated above.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, 440032 said:

The first word, and the last word, must the airfield name. Nothing else, no "all stations", no "traffic", no nothing. That's why it goes pear shaped, people doing whatever the hell they want.

 

CAAP 116-01 v4.2 (this weeks) para 6.3.8.

 

(location) traffic,

Aircraft type

Callsign

position/level/intentions

(location)

 

Press button, begin speaking, stop speaking, release button.

Dirt dart planes are the worst for fast talking. It's not cool.

That's it. Simples! (can't do the Meerkat noise...)

 

And that's exactly why you can't make out the important details. 

 

The rules are stupid! 

It is exceedingly common to hear the first and last words clipped because so many people cannot coordinate the button press or release with their speech.

 

It is a fact that many people press ( or release) and talk ( or stop talking) at what they feel is the same instant but actually cut off part of the transmission. 

 

Swapping the word "traffic" or "All stations" or anything else to have it first and last and the location being the second and second last word would make a huge difference but the boffins in CASA live in ivory towers with ideal background noise and pilot coordination. 

 

Another issue is that it's even more common is to hear speech volume and enunciation drift off or the rate of delivery increase as the transmission progresses. but that's another issue. 

 

Edited by Jaba-who
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I can't see why anyone should use "All Stations or "All aircraft". 126.7 is to be used in the general vicinity of an aerodrome from 10 miles or a bit more out. The only people you are interested in knowing about are those in the vicinity of that aerodrome or heading that way unless it is an emergency in which it is a Pan or Mayday. What is the point in broadcasting to someone a hundred miles away? The last word is the location. There is no traffic mentioned. It is there in case the listener missed the first one. Still nothing works when you have incompetent radio operators.

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The requirements are clear. Location first and last. CASA is thinking of putting traffic before location, but they think slower than even I do.

when CASA made a ruling that strips not on charts had to use area frequency,, the area which is used by Airservices got busier, so Airservices wanted all strips to be on the charts and using 126.7, The new strips on the charts are now using 126.7 and that frequency is now busier.

My dealings with Airservices make me believe that they are no better to deal with than CASA, so all we can do is comply with their refs and use good radio procedures. From what I see on this forum I wonder how many pilots are really conversant with what is required.

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Like you said !

CASA moves slowly, BUT they change it, ready or not.

If your away or just incognito you Can get caught out.

spacesailor

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On 3/7/2019 at 6:03 AM, pmccarthy said:

I thought the all stations call went out many years ago.

It did...kaz

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In an area where there are more than a few airfields it becomes tedious with pilots making 7 circuit calls even when there is no traffic. Common sense fella's, if there is no traffic there is no point in making 7 calls? What was wrong with different frequencies for CTAF's listed in ERSA? Working especially on a weekends becomes tiresome monitoring 2 or 3 frequencies with one constantly blaring postion reports many miles away. 

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1 hour ago, kaz3g said:

It did...kaz

Why is it still in the AIPs?

Could it be that the format is not that important, as long as all the necessary information is included?

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