Guest Pioneer200 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I see it all the time on this forum, AUSSIES BAGGING THE JABIRUS WHY? I fly the J160 here in Ashburton NZ Its a briliant plane for training in and cruising in WHATS WRONG WITH THEM? Why don't you like them?:big_grin::big_grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I don't think it's that they don't Like them... it's just there's soooo many of them around. I love them to say the least... I think it's just like Holden and Ford, same machine really, just different opinions... (Holdens are better all the same!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLA82 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 (Holdens are better all the same!!) Couldn't have said it better Tomo, I don't have any issues with Jabiru's as I have never been in one but they are just a bit to common to get exited about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Ive never heard of anyone not liking them.. not at all...not once...;)..not on this site.... seriously though, i think its tall poppy syndrome.. But some hate the ergonomics while others worry about the engines.. some think they are too difficult to fly, some say they are just plastic fantastic..But me, i love em.. for a good solid, cheap trainer ya simply can't beat em...IMHO..;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 P200 I reckon it is "tall poppy syndrome" that drives many of the knockers. Heaps of pilots have voted with their cheque books and most can't get the smiles off their faces ....... and the success of the aircraft seems to then attract knockers. I have a 230 and I chose it as the best for the job that I needed it to do .... and I still don't know any alternative with heaps of space and luggage capacity that will cruise at 120 knots with up to 6 hours range ......... and which is as strong and proven as the 230, with a known ability to routinely use a farm strip. If anyone knows one, please let me know. Regards Geoff Geez Motza .... looks like we agree on something else. Bit of a worry ... eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brett Campany Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 You either love 'em or hate 'em. I'm 50 / 50 at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I knew i liked you for a reason Captain...hehe:thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahlocks Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I see it all the time on this forum, AUSSIES BAGGING THE JABIRUS WHY? 'Cuz the owners are quite rabid and it's a sport to stir them up. ;) WHATS WRONG WITH THEM? Why don't you like them?:big_grin::big_grin: Who said anything about not liking them? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPete Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 It's only those who don't have one.......:big_grin: regards :big_grin::big_grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I don't believe people "generally" bag Jabs although like everything there are always just a few - what I do believe is some may do it with tongue in cheek for example when I had a CT I wanted to get a sticker made up to put on Jabs: "When I grow up I want to be a CT" :big_grin: and others say: "A CT looks like someone stuck a straw up the rear of a Jab and blew hard" Jabs are a great aircraft when you look at the dollar return and if I were to have a Jab I would very much like a 230 and it is like everything - if everyone liked the Jab then there wouldn't be any other aircraft or if everyone only liked one book there wouldn't be any other books. Remember the differentiation between bagging and tongue in cheek - we are all amongst friends here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 "A CT looks like someone stuck a straw up the rear of a Jab and blew hard" How true...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonflyer Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I ask some of you guys who have flown both a tecnam, and a Jab.If they were the same price for similar specs which would you buy?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Ok here's my bit for what it is worth.......I have flown ULs since 1987, and have certainly had my share of time with unreliable engines, so stick with me OK. I have never had much beef with the Jab airframe, although it it not my sort of thing, I tend to have a history of owning aircraft that I can stick into an unimproved paddock, or short strip easily, after slowing down to around 45 kts. I think it takes more skill to fly slow, than it does to fly fast. I don't like starting my final approaches 3nm out, just to slow down. If I want to do that I'll get an RV-6 and really go fast !. The airframe looks fine to me, except that I do like my landing gears to stay in one piece, whatever, and I have designed, and destroyed a couple in the past. Landing gears should be TOUGH..period. Just like wing spars. If there's a fault ..fix it. It's not rocket science. The only other beef on the fuselage is the ergonomics of the cockpit, especially the requirement to change hands after landing to access the brake. You don't need unnecessary workload in the cockpit especially right after landing, and especially in a trainer. It's easily designed out. Lightwing has done a beautifull job with the Speed, why hasn't Jabaru ?, they've had plenty of time. Let get to my favorite area, the engine. Years ago when the first Jabs came out with the 1600s, we all got behind them. Hey it was Aussie-built afterall, why wouldn't you ?. We perservered, then the 2200 arrived. Stiffie didn't want to know about the 1600 then, he dropped them like a hot brick, which left a lot of people in the lurch. You would call for a part and it would be either changed (FAR too often), or no longer available. That's not the Australian way. He lost me, and a few others at that point. The first thing an aircraft engine should be is reliable with a capital R. We've been aviating now for over 100 years. Absolutly no reason why we shouldn't have in-flight engine failures down to the bare minimum. They should be rare as hen's teeth. I'm sorry, but I always feel more comfortable behind the Rotax 912. Have been flying them now for around fifteen years in many different aircraft, and have never had one even look like it was going to falter. Even a Hirth which has a publised TBO of 1000hrs will make it without a major overhaul, upgrade or rebuild. The Jab engines have demonstrated over the years a persistant record of unreliability, with not a few major component failures IE: crankshafts. It is ongoing. How can an honest L2 or aircraft maintenance engineer work on those engines regularly, when deep down he knows they might suffer an unplanned component failure anyway, regardless of how good he is with his work. And of course it wouldn't be the fault of the engine would it ?. Stiffie himself came out recently in a National magazine, and stated that he thought that making engines was "probabily a mistake". When I mention that there are usually a couple of Jab engine related failures in each RAA mag , the usual reply is that's because there are more Jabs flying!. RUBBISH !...there are probabily at least twice, if not three times the number of 912 powered aircraft in Australia flying, and you have not seen a corresponding, and continuing, reporting of serious failures over the past fifteen years, with those engines. It's not rocket science, the infernal combustion engine has been flying now for over 100 years. If it's not consistantly reliable, either fix it or throw it in the bin. I have said before on this forum, if Jab had offered the 912 engine also, they would probabily be the worlds' best selling aircraft. That should get them going Frank !...................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I havn't been back through the mags looking for details about Jab engine failures, but I can remember one or two. There are a lot more broken nosewheel problems and that is a known fault which is compounded by faulty landing techniques. As value for money I don't think they are far from the front, but they do not appeal to me for their flying ability. The reason for that may just be that I am spoiled, flying a Starlet. Rather in the same way that a Ferrari driver would not be really blown away by a Toyota Corolla, plus the tall poppy syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cloudsuck Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I ask some of you guys who have flown both a tecnam, and a Jab.If they were the same price for similar specs which would you buy?. I've owned four aircraft and flown many others. Up until recently I owned a 6cyl taildragger Jab and a Tecnam Sierra (which I still own) at the same time. The Tecnam is a much much nicer aircraft to fly, hands down but at a much greater price. If they were the same price I would absolutely buy the Teccie. I think Jabs are great and love the 3.3 engine. Bang for buck, dollar for dollar the Jab wins hands down. I agree with others, if I were to own another Jab, it would be a J230. But if you can afford a Tecnam, they are a much nicer aircraft (and they should be). P.S. Most of the Jab bagging seems to come from those who have never owned or flown one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahlocks Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 ..... Most of the Jab bagging seems to come from those who have never owned or flown one. Which makes sense when you think about it...:raise_eyebrow: :yin_yan: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-man Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I ask some of you guys who have flown both a tecnam, and a Jab.If they were the same price for similar specs which would you buy?. Having flown both, and enjoyed every minute of it in both, I think that everyone would choose the Tecnam as it's so much smoother to fly. The problem is, it's chalk and cheese. You could buy 2 or three J160s for the same price as the Tecnam and one J230 with enough left over to buy fuel for the next 10 years. It's like comparing a Volkswagon with a Mercedes. I have friends with Jabs who absolutely love them and have had no problems and know of others who have had no end of trouble. Dollar for dollar, Jab wins hands down but ... the real issue is the motor. I agree with the major, leave me with our 912 until the Jab engineers iron out the bugs. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watto Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 All I can say is I love my 230, the more I fly it the better it gets! I am in Brisbane with her at the moment and will be heading back tomorrow afternoon and the trip is an absolute pleasure, sure beats that Bruce highway for five and a half hours each way. But in saying that I have not flown any other brand so I cannot compare, I have heard people say the Jabs are a handful but that can be a good thing once you get used to it as then it makes easier to manage aircraft seem tame. Watto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushpilot Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 'Penis envy' is part of the problem. Some of the vocal knockers are wannabees. Others think 'imported is better'; a bit like the syndrome that sells BMW over Holden to some people. Then there is the fact that there are so many Jabs out there - and this leads to more discussion about faults or issues that emerge. When a/c numbers are low, 'issues' reporting is not of general interest, so often goes unreported or unread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cloudsuck Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 All I can say is I love my 230, the more I fly it the better it gets!I am in Brisbane with her at the moment and will be heading back tomorrow afternoon and the trip is an absolute pleasure, sure beats that Bruce highway for five and a half hours each way. But in saying that I have not flown any other brand so I cannot compare, I have heard people say the Jabs are a handful but that can be a good thing once you get used to it as then it makes easier to manage aircraft seem tame. Watto Just out of interest Watto, how long does it take you from Rodds Bay to Brissy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timm427 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I've heard the argument that jabirus are difficult to fly. Now it's hard to be objective when the only planes I've flown are the 160 & 170 but I can't imagine any plane being much easier. There have been moments on final when I feel like asking if there is anything I can do to help. I do understand the concern with the engine and did have a crankcase bolt fail on one occassion. It would seem they are improving over time and they do run on avgas which is a bonus. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Hi Timm, that's not YOU'R Wittman tailwind is it ?......................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timm427 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I wish - I could build one to come in under 600kgs but may need to do some work on the airfoil to get it back to 45 knot stall (currently 48kts IAS). There is a guy in the US doing some testing with VG's. I am waiting to see how he goes with it. guess which engine I am considering (Hint starts with J and ends with abiru 3300). Yeah I know. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Aren't they nice, I've always liked them. Probabily go allright with a 3300........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timm427 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I know we're a bit of topic but if we keep mentioning Jabiru we might get away with it. yeah I'm the same, liked them since I was a kid. People say they dont like them because they look boxy, But I think that's why I like them. I am told the secret is to keep them light and clean and even with a 100H/P such as the Jabiru 3.3 you can expect speeds around 125 -130kts Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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