VFR and IFR - What's the difference?

[Guest Glenn]

Ok I know what they stand for -

 

VFR - Visual Flight Rules

 

IFR- Instrument Flight Rules

 

But, what is the difference between the two? I could look this up myself on Google but where's the fun in that? This way, other's who like me, may also want to know.

 

 

[Guest Glenn]

:roll:

 

I flew for a little while last saturday on the way to Narrandera and I was doing both.

 

 

[Guest Glenn]

Yes it's Night Visual Flight Rules

 

 

[Guest The Hammer]

How about Special VFR?

 

 

[Guest PaulR]

How about Special VFR?

Is that the same as Marginal VFR?

 

 

[Guest Glenn]

Hey now don't go confusing me anymore than I am now :roll:

 

 

[Guest doubled]

Anyone for "Private IFR"?

 

 

[Guest The Hammer]

Okay guys, get those books out & check up that I'm not giving you duff gen!

 

VFR

 

VFR govern procedures for flights being conducted under visual conditions*.

 

A pilot flying under VFR must operate the aircraft based on visual reference to the ground, water, and other aircraft and airborne objects (eg balloons).

 

Visual flight is restricted to _ _ _ what altitude?

 

Are you permitted to fly over cloud?

 

If you say "Yes", then for how long?

 

IFR

 

IFR requires the pilot AND the aircaft be qualified for flight in Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC).

 

Navigation when flying in IMC, under IFR, may be by reference to on-ground navigation aids, inertial or global navigation equipment, or a combination of all.

 

Special VFR

 

Special VFR may be authorised within a control zone - with the approval of ATC - when VFR weather minima becomes marginal.

 

Pilots qualified only for flight under VFR should never plan their flight when conditions are considered (by reports and/or forecasts) to be below VMC, even if only marginally.

 

* What are the criteria that define "visual conditions"?

 

 

[Guest PaulR]

Visual flight is restricted to _ _ _ what altitude? Are you permitted to fly over cloud?

If you say "Yes", then for how long?

In the US it is under 18,000 Feet MSL (Class E Airspace) or under 14,500' MSL Class G

 

Yes

 

I do not think there is a time limit as long as you can maintain minimums required at the altitude you are operating at.

 

* What are the criteria that define "visual conditions"?

Again in the US it is the following: (Day)

 

0------->1200' AGL it is 1 mile visibility and Clear of Clouds (Class G)

 

Class E below 10,000' MSL it is 3 miles visibility and 1000' above cloud, 500' below, 2000' horizontal clearance.

 

Class E above 10,000' MSL it is 5 miles visibility and 1000' above, below, and horizontal.

 

Class G follows Class E flight rules up to but not including 14,500 MSL.

 

Night: I believe follows the 3-152 rule no matter what altitude is being operated at.

 

Here's hoping I haven't butchered this too badly from my dispatch training. It has been a while, but that is what I remember.

 

Are the rules different here in Australia?

 

 

[Guest Glenn]

Are you permitted to fly over cloud? If you say "Yes", then for how long?

We flew VFR above the clouds going to Narromine (see post in Trip Reports for photos). There was a hole in the clouds at Parkes so we went through it and stayed just under the clouds for the rest of the trip.

 

I guess you could stay above the clouds for as long as your fuel holds out. I don't think there would be a time limit on it because you aren't permitted to fly through the cloud. My thoughts anyway.

 

 

[Guest The Hammer]

VFR stipulate that the longest time you are permitted to fly above (not in) cloud, without visual reference to land or water, is 30 minutes.

 

Now that's rather interesting, and how do you interpret it?

 

If you fly above cloud for 30 minutes - expecting to be in the clear, or to have obtained a visual fix within that time, but you don't, should you do a 180, knowing that you'll once again see land (or water), in which case you will have flown over cloud for approx. 1 hour?

 

The important point for non-IFR rated pilots is to stay out of cloud, and do NOT descend through cloud.

 

It's better to turn around and re-establish visual contact, than to press on in deteriorating conditons.

 

Landing in a paddock is a far better alternative to being splattered across the ground, or into a hill!

 

It might be slightly embarassing, but it won't kill you, and will have demonstrated sound, sensible, and responsible decision-making.

 

 

[Guest colt_pa22]

VFR stipulate that the longest time you are permitted to fly above (not in) cloud, without visual reference to land or water, is 30 minutes.

Or 2 hours if you are using Nav aids.

 

colt

 

 

[Guest PaulR]

VFR stipulate that the longest time you are permitted to fly above (not in) cloud, without visual reference to land or water, is 30 minutes. Now that's rather interesting, and how do you interpret it?

Like I said that was just what I remembered from dispatch courses. I worked for a FAR 121 operator, and all our flight plans were IFR regardless of weather conditions. We did have some pilots contact us for permission for VFR departures, and they were granted depending on weather at the point-of-departure/arrival. After that, it is the pilots responsibility to declare a change to an IFR flight plan if the weather goes south.

 

:( Sadly, I have no GA experience so I will ask this again. What are the VFR minimums in Australia?

 

 

[Guest lonewolf]

VFR in Oz

 

For VFR in oz according to ENR 1.2-2 AIP Australia Class A is IFR only

 

Classes E and G at or above 10000ft amsl 8k vis 1.5km horizontal distance and 1000ft vertical spacing from clouds.

 

Below 10000 amsl 5k vis and same spacing as above.

 

At or below 3000amsl or 1000agl whichever is higher flight vis 5k clear of cloud in sight of ground or water.

 

Special VFR can be issued by ATC is when visibibility is not less 3k clear of cloud and in accordance with CAR157 with regard to low flying

 

 

[Guest PaulR]

Thanks lonewolf. Safe to say that it is similar in that case.

 

 

[Guest doubled]

"At or below 3000amsl or 1000agl whichever is higher flight vis 5k clear of cloud in sight of ground or water."

 

That's for class G airspace.

 

Just clear of cloud doesn't cut it in Class C. There are specific distances for clear of cloud requirements for VFR. Special VFR in class C let's you get right up to cloud. However, if you go special VFR due Vis, ATC have to separate you rather than just pass traffic. Plus it Special VFR cannot unduly delay an IFR flight, so that's why ATC may refuse it.