Stevie B

And which report will that be? You producing one?The forum is for the discussion of Accidents and Incidents , not just condolences, if you don't feel they should be discussed don't read the forum

The speculation and idiotic opinions annoy me, so insensitive and ignorant. Families looking for answers trawl through these forums, enjoy your discussions boofhead...

 

 

Dust devils can be very dangerous, I know of a pilot who was flying a Cessna and totalled his aircraft due to a dust devil. I feel sorry for the unfortunate pilot, his passenger and their families.

 

 

Steve maybe you would have been better off posting your critique of wings elsewhere in the forum.I believe the funerals for the pilot and his passenger are being held this week.

I don't know the pilot or the circumstances and I am always sensitive to the families involved. My post was triggered from reading other posts on this thread that seemed to be indicating that a recent change of wing without training as the cause of the accident. I'm not blaming anybody or anything, just saying that upgrading a wing may not be the cause, maybe everyone should wait for the full investigation.

 

 

I wouldn't call the arrow a high performance wing, it was a fix for the SST and trims at 60 knots. Your high performance wings are 80 knots plus. I once heard Russel say that the arrow had the potential for 90 knots but the 80 horse engine just isn't enough so they have it hanging at just 60 knots. Another bloke I respect is Larry Mednick and he thinks the Arrow is the best wing airborne have ever done, a good all rounder. I've flown 5 different wings from a wizard 3 to a Quik R, each time I graduated I thought it was easier to fly. Scariest Wing for me was the slowest, the wizard was all over the shop in anything but the calmest of conditions, each time I graduated it got easier, the faster wings are less volatile, have better penetration in rough conditions and generally easier and more pleasurable to fly. I'm glad that I started out and got my grounding in the wiz as I reckon if if you can fly that you can fly anything.

 

 

Hiya Nafqr. . .I dunno whether you were referring to the thread where I described an experience I had some years ago whilst carrying a cameraman to video someone's first flight in a flexwing ( sorry - Trike. . .) where I inadvertantly allowed my aircraft to drift into the wake of the trike ahead, as he turned unexpectedly in very still evening air. . . resulting in a really severe uncommanded roll by MY aeroplane, 90 degrees approx to the right at very low level, . . .I got lambasted for my comments about this from people with degrees in aerodynamics who explained ( obviously with a pained and sympathetic expression as they were typing ) that I was talking rubbish and that the sudden air disturbance MUST have been created by the WING of the preceding trike, as a result of it's aerodynamic lift and the fact that this MUST have been the reason. Sorry, but had this been the case ( and I've had that as well, on more than a number of occasions. . .) I feel that I would have been shaken around like a sack of spuds in a dustbin had it not been the rotational turbulence from the propwash which caused the incident. YES. . I agree,. . . It Could well have been a combination of both. . . .

 

Rotax two stroke engines rotate clockwise when viewed from the propeller end. . . and can cause terrific rotational wake turbulence, as someone I know found out last week when he departed immediately following a 912S powered trike, and ended up returning to the ground in an uncommanded turn and breaking the undercarriage, prop, and some of the ally tubes.

 

THIS is what created the rotational disturbance which caused my severe roll, . . . I understand ( without having a degree in the subject ) that there is quite a complex airflow situation over and under a trike wing, having amassed over a thousand hours experience flying on numerous types of trike, ( not enough to be anywhere near an expert, but having AT LEAST SOME knowledge of how they work. ) I really DON'T mind the " No Phil. . .You've got it wrong" comments so long as they come from a witness who actually SAW what happened, or else someone I like a lot. ( X ) !

 

Sorry about the thread drift.

 

Phil

Hi PhilI'm of the opinion that a greater turbulence would come off a prop than a wing, and as a trikes prop is at the rear this turbulence could be greater or different than a 3 axis where the prop wash is perhaps lessened by some degree as it has to flow over the aircrafts fuselage. I'm happy to be told I've got it wrong and even more happy to be educated a bit on this subject.

 

 

Um pardon me but wouldn't there be greater wake turbulence coming from the prop on a trike as on as trike the prop is at the back! your 3 axis has the prop at the front and the passage of air over the aircraft must reduce the props vortices, but on a trike?????? maybe a trike could produce greater wake turbulence????

 

Anyway off topic, we already know that wake turbulence was not a factor in this incident..

 

 

Hey March I'm selling my Edge X and it seems to fit all your criteria check it out on my ebay listing

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/300588375607?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

 

 

I'd like to conact you privately to discuss this further but I haven't been able to find out how to email you. If anyone can help, please let me know how it is done.Thanks, Bluey

my e-mail is [email protected] I will be away until tuesday so wont be able to reply to anything until then cheers

 

 

Has anyone imported or flown the pegasus quik/R? I was talking to someone today about the possibility of importing one but I'm a bit reluctant given that I would not get an opportunity to test fly one first. I hear they are cheaper to import than buy a new airborne 912 and the airborne is inferior in areas such as speed, handling in turbulence and of course cost. The quik comes with a 100hp 912 and the quickR trims at around 80kts hands off. At the moment, I am looking at upgrading my streak III to the SST at a cost of around 12k - cost of streak III sale. The QuikR is about 38000 pounds if I'm not mistaken. Delivered to Aus it might set me back around 56k with the dollar where it is at the moment (1.10US). A change over of around 16k or so.Bluey

Two of our members in the Southern Microlight Club have imported Pegasus Trikes, one was a GT450 and the other a Quik R, the QuikR was brought in this year and registered with the RAA, both of these trikes are based in Victoria, one in Porepunkah (GT450) and the other at Tyab in Melbourne (QuikR). I'm sure that the 2 owners would be happy to talk/show you about their machines. I am about to place my order for a Quik R, it seems to me that they are the best value trike at the moment and Airborne do not have a trike that matches it. Contact me privately if you want more info.

 

 

This thread seems to have gotten lost under the new configuration

 

 

I think the majority of us in this topic were merely pointing out that there could be a number of legal obligations that you'd be required to meet. No one said you couldn't or weren't capable of doing it. I was saying you need to keep a careful watch as CASA has some pretty serious rules and regs regarding money. Obviously this has been cleared up now and turns out you can do it. By all means go for it mate, it's something that you feel very strongly about and is for an extremely good cause, I think it'd be an excellent way to get donations in. :thumb_up:Keep us posted on your progress!

 

-Andrew

Thanks for your support Andrew, I guess the majority weren't to know that I was already fully aware of all that stuff, dont need to recover it and was dissapointed that my desired topic was being taken off track before it had even started. You can be assured that I want to play by all the rules and keep everything transparent. I certainly have no intention of bleeding funds off to pay for my own flying enjoyment.

 

Over the years I've been a sceptic of how donations given to various charities is actually used and I hate the idea of feeding beurocracies with very little actually going where it's really intended. One of the aspects that I really like about Gawler is that there is no beurocracy, every dollar raised will go directly to benefit the cancer stricken.

 

 

This a message that was sent to me privately, so uplifting.

 

Negative words "you cant do it" "dont do it" "why are you doing it" just dont cut it. There is far too much negativity in this world as it is. Keep at it mate!

 

 

nafqrIts very refreshing to see someone so dedicated to the cause. So I am thinking you want to promote and diseminate the cause as much as you want to fund raise.

First thought is a fly-in, where you can do the things on the ground that raise funds quickly - BBQ, drinks, selling specially labelled wine, raffle, auction, commission from trade sales. I see a number of fly-ins are combining with other events eg classic cars, bikes - if there is someone else in your group that has a passion, see if you can combine to increase the public participation. You could do a 'progressive dinner' idea where you fly somewhere, do the event, fly to the next etc breakfast here, smoko there, lunch elsewhere thereby attracting a different crowd at each.

 

You could fly someone special from place to place. Get his/her story in the papers to drum up some interest in coming out to see & hear and then fly on to the next. If you come up with some spin, like 10 microlights flying along side to show that cancer suffers are supported by their community - message being you too can support someone. People like to "buy" something tangible, so offering "packages" like $100 buys counselling for 3 families, for companies the "Blue Ribbon Sponsor" a predetermined value donation gets advertising, plaque for the business' wall, and mention at events. Don't know what's available in your state, but have a look at grant/sponsorships on offer. The grant may help you initially set up, eg buy branded shade shelters, commercial food van, cost of liquor licence etc. Your local council may provide works at cost or free if you need to prepare a venue. Use all the available "Event" listings to get the word out - this site, Council's what's on, magazines, flyers, local radio. Form teams and drum up support. Perhaps have a road component to complement the flying, teams, each going under a type of cancer (and make it fun), eg "the Prostrate Prostates". Both groups travel raising funds on the way amid a good deal of competition, bribery and corruption - a bit like the Variety Bash. Tie in awareness of the condition, but also Gawler's help for the sufferer. We give so much to research, but while we wait for a cure, we need to support sufferers now.

 

There are websites that can help you set up a page and spread the word - like http://www.everydayhero.com.au There are some flying related fund raisers in there, like Wings of Life, who have a fly-in and are now doing a flying trip. Try using social media. I have no experience with this but it is used to good effect, but can also turn very nasty quickly. You may need to set up a Not-for-Profit group to indemnify yourselves, and to assure people the funds go direct to Gawler, and to satisfy the tax man that you are not running a business. Main thing is to set your back office policies, procedures, first then plan your event a good way out, so that media coverage is there, teams recruited, and the build up is happening, rather than try to throw something big together at the last minute. I am doing our Shire's Annual Show - 3 days - like NATFLY without the planes - first events this Thursday morning - planning started 12 months ago.

 

Sue

Thanks Sue for all your suggestions which I will take on board, I had a look at the everyday hero website, its a shame that they take 6.5% of donations as their fee, this is similar to another site called yourcause.com. I will set something else up with the help of the Gawler Foundation where funds can go directly into an account where no fees are taken.

 

 

Hi Nafqr,I am a veteran of many a fundraiser, through Rotary, Apex, Scouts, Aero Club, Church and for worthwhile causes, like RFDS. A lot depends on what charity you are supporting and if you are going it alone or linking with teams at each landing.

Unfortunately, when it comes to flying, there are many who ask me how to fly for charity. In reality (and I am not saying you fit this category) it is more How can I get someone else to fund my flying ..." I've lost count of the number of people who raise money through churches to fund their trip outback, usually to Birdsville, and if you believe their report, the town of 65 (when I was there) had been saved 3 times over, one bloke reported near 100 came forward when he gave the salvation call the first night (and now he had to go back ....). After all the parishioners are unlikely to fund your next trip if you report 1 turned up and only only wanted to talk planes.

 

That aside, you need to theme your fund raising. This should be in tune with your designated charity (and check their fundraising policies). Some charities already have chapters around the country. If you can, tie in with them and have an 'event' when you fly in, the proceeds of which the local group hand directly to the charity and you chalk it up to the success of your effort. For example fund raising for a rescue service - At each location the locals auction off a donated Trauma Teddy (funds direct to charity) which you then you fly to the next location, building up a collection which you then (in front of press & with charity rep & giant cheque) hand to needy facility. Or you could take something from place to place and have the locals do a BBQ, cent sale, etc. Or Retracing the Steps of Famous Person. Beating the Bounds (going around the boundary) for a geographic charity eg Highlands Rescue, or co-piloting for a blind pilot raising awareness. Basically you want to put hours in the log book, so there has to be an excuse for the flying part.

 

Risk - charity will want to see insurance and indemnity. Don't plan something with a tight schedule that might compel you to be there fair or foul weather - remember the child pilot in the USA going coast to coast, two adults pushed on into bad weather to meet a press appointment and 3 died. Approach the charity with a well researched proposal. Know your charity - don't plan a booze up, betting on a cochroach race and expect the Salvos to be impressed. To raise money quickly you need something everyone wants with a good margin. Given you can't carry much in a light plane, you may have to plan to have it shipped to your destination, or have the locals do it. Sausage sizzle / hamburgers - sangas, bread, onion, sauce, marg = $1, sell at $2, tea/coffee, softdrink 50c hot, sell $2 cold. You can get bottles of wine fairly cheaply & supplier will arrange a label printed to whatever you want - promoting your trip & charity (RFDS locals do this). Mark up usually 100% or more. Auction donated goods at a "Dinner under the stars" - seen this done at Longreach & Winton Qld airstrips very sucessfully.

 

Hopefully given you some ideas. Could be more specific if I knew what the charity was about. Sue

Thanks Sue, as I've said before I dont want anyone else to fund my flying I genuinely wish to support my chosen charity. My world got turned upside down last year when my beautiful wife was diagnosed with Ovarian Cancer, her prognosis is not good and at 47 years of age we were devastated. She attended a residential programme at the Gawler Foundation in Victoria's Yarra Valley in October last year. The Gawler Foundation run programmes on all the lifestyle issues that you can address to run alongside any medical treatment. (integrative medicine) The programme gave her hope and put the smile back on her face. Her prognosis now is not an issue we just enjoy every day and live the best life that we can. We are so grateful to the Gawler Foundation and the work that they do. The Gawler Foundation are a not for profit charity who recieve no government funding and do fantastic work. There is no cure for cancer but here is an organisation that are delivering meaningful and real benefits to cancer victims right now. I want to support them. I have lost both my parents and my brother (march this year) to cancer. Every now and then I get to leave all my troubles on the ground and take off in my microlight for a while, one day while flying I was thinking to myself wouldnt it be good if we could find a way to combine flying with fund raising, I'm sure it can be done. I am already involved with Gawler, they are publishing my story shortly on their website and I have a major corporate supporter who will match funds raised up to $10,000. Gawler will help publicise any event and the Southern Microlight Club are also willing to support the cause. I have CFI's who have also indicated support and the HGFA will donate temporary memberships for TIFFs.

 

So this has started with a desire and I now need to come up with a plan. I thought that it would be a good idea to brainstorm this forum for ideas.

 

http://www.gawler.org/

 

Steve

 

 

Owen what was your idea? How did you raise the money? How much did you raise? What fund raising ideas have you for anyone who wants to follow you?

 

 

Hi All,I just noticed this forum thread and thought I'd answer some of the questions to the best of my ability.

 

Firstly, the 'There and Back' flight was one of my best flying experiences to date. The people and places made it a journey that I'll never forget, while the challenge of executing it as precisely as possible was very satisfying. Would I do it again? Yes. In a heart-beat.

 

Owen what was your idea? How did you raise the money?

 

Secondly, I did go through the necessary training to attain a RAA Pilot Certificate. It was a straightforward process that I thoroughly enjoyed and my dealings with the RAA were first class.

 

As for the flight as a fund-raising exercise, it was a private operation that I funded up-front. Before I 'unveiled' the flight, I made a proposal to the nominated charity with my idea and gained their approval; in this case the charity was the Royal Flying Doctor Service. On this point I would like to emphasise that the fund-raising was kept entirely separate from my expenses. All donations went DIRECTLY to the RFDS via an online donation page, into their registered donation tins or via cheques made out DIRECTLY to them. I think it is important when undertaking these flights to keep those two issues absolutely independent of each other or the exercise can be perceived as being funded by donations.

 

In summary, such a flight is most definitely possible and the ability to support a worthwhile charity makes the flight even more satisfying. To do it properly, there is a lot of work involved in the preparation, execution and conclusion of the flight. I was fortunate to have wonderful support from a great team. Also, it must always be remembered that regardless of the cause that is being supported and the media interest that is being generated, at it's core, it is first and foremost a flight. As such, safety is the absolute priority at all times; everything else is secondary.

 

I hope this sheds a bit of light on the subject. Thanks for the interest and the kind comment about my writing efforts too! :big_grin:

 

Safe flying.

 

Owen Zupp

My suggestion is if you really want to raise money for charity, go ahead and raise it then hand it straight over, rather than spending money on flying which could go to the charity. Or donate the money you would spend on the flight directly to the charity.If you want to go flying, save up and do it. Or possibly do as Owen did, fund the flight yourself and have donations going directly to the charity concerned. Otherwise in effect the charity is paying for your flight and that is not a charitable thing to do.

I fully intend to fund the flight myself and don't need an ethics lecture, I have asked this group for ideas on how we could use this fabulous pastime to generate an inflow of funds for a charity that would be greater than the simple gift I could do from my own resources. If you have any ideas or suggestions on this topic I would appreciate

I should have been more clear about what I was asking for as I have already been down that path and learnt that only an Instructor or CFI can take a joy flight or TIF. I have Instructors on board with this and dont want to recover that discussion. What I'm asking for is ideas of ways to get the funds rolling in?

 

 

dont go there

why?

 

 

I'm looking for ideas of how to combine my love of flying with raising money and promoting a worthwhile charity, I can think of no other more satisfying thing to do than to turn this great and fabulous passtime into an activity that benefits a very worthwhile cause. I already have a charity in mind, what I am asking for is ideas of how to get the money flowing? Looking forward to receiving your suggestions...

 

 

The group he was flying with were all in regular contact on a chat chanel, however there was nothing from him, furthers the speculation...

 

 

Speculation is that the pilot either had a heart attack or stroke whilst in the air as radio went silent.