Ian

16 hours ago, turboplanner said:

It's not likely there'll be any public news until a buyer comes along with the right price and that could be months, and it all depends on what the buyer/new landlord wants to do, if the seller sells the leases as well.

I might be a bit naive, however I'm not sure on how the seller would separate the leases from the sale of the property unless you go through a number of awkward processes especially give n the various rights of way required.

Here's a metric to pounds goof. Flying 14 tons overweight.

https://www.ntsb.gov/legal/alj/OnODocuments/Aviation/4510.pdf

Also summary of annex 5 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. So metric is coming 😉

####

Many attempts to improve the level of standardization were made in the following years and a number of amendments
to Annex 5 were introduced. By 1961 the number of tables of units in the Annex had been reduced to two, which
remained until Amendment 13 was adopted in March 1979. Amendment 13 extended considerably the scope of ICAO's
role in standardizing units of measurements to cover all aspects of air and ground operations and not just air-ground
communications. It also introduced the International System of Units, known as SI from the "Système International
d’Unités", as the basic standardized system to be used in civil aviation.
In addition to the SI units the amendment recognized a number of non-SI units which may be used permanently in
conjunction with SI units in aviation. These include the litre, the degree Celsius, the degree for measuring plane angle,
etc. The amendment also recognized, as do the relevant ICAO Assembly Resolutions, that there are some non-SI units
which have a special place in aviation and which will have to be retained, at least temporarily. These are the nautical
mile and the knot, as well as the foot when it is used in the measurement of altitude, elevation or height only. Some
practical problems arise in the termination of the use of these units and it has not yet been possible to fix a termination
date.

####

14 hours ago, kgwilson said:

If battery technology gets to the magic 1000 watts per kg they become quite viable for a range of around 1000km.

I think that you probably mean KWh per kilo.

Breakthroughs are required, sometimes they come, sometimes they don't.

Fuel cells and fusion have been waiting for a breakthrough for almost 100 years and it hasn't come.

22 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Kgs to Lbs is dead easy.  Add 10% and double it. Nev

But kgs to kgs it easier, just multiply by 1

Firstly let me be clear, I'd love electric planes being a reality, however I don't have high hopes, and I hope I'm wrong.

It breaks down to 3 factors Range, weight and recharge time.

As a private pilot I could cope with a long recharge time however commercial vehicles don't have this luxury.

A breakthrough in low cost batteries is essential to make flying EVs a possibility, and it remains a toy technology. The only cost effective technology I can see is to use aluminium air batteries to provide an energy density near that of liquid fuels. However they're not reachargable. The fuel cycle would be a bit of a logistics nightmare and to complete the cycle would require a lot more aluminium smelters which require 24x7 power not intermittent solar/wind.

Hydrogen is unlikely, it's difficult, dangerous and expensive. Most planes want to burn it in a turbine. If it's cryogenic you won't ever leave any in the tank and less frequently used airports would need to be closed.

Look at the picture in the following link. Most of the passenger section is now devoted to fuel, directly behind the passengers. Doesn't look particularly safe.

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2024-05-innovative-aviation-liquid-hydrogen-project-launched

Hi All,

I'd like to understand how many people in and around the Canberra region would use a facilities in Canberra Airport, Williamsdale or other site if hangars were available at low cost?

Or would people prefer to travel further afield to fly.

Also does anyone know anything about this https://maps.app.goo.gl/9PkhZNeSs1H5Bq5h7

Does anyone know the current status and any mechanisms for ensuring that it stays within the usage required by the original deed?

Did the current owner buy the property on the basis that the rights associated with the covenant would be extinguished at some point.

Is there a risk to those who currently hangar their planes at Goulburn that they might be evicted at some point.

Back to the topic at hand.

Not everyone is as perfect as they might want to be in assessing their ability to assess risk and mistakes will continue to be made across the aviation industry. So we can assume that despite the best possible advice people will continue to fly into IFR conditions.

I was told a story by a pilot who was far more experienced that me who flew into a situation of low cloud and icing weather. He was a qualified IFR pilot however familiarity with the route made him make a couple of dumb decisions. 

Does anyone know of a resource which points out the pros and cons of the 180 back out of the cloud or straight and level increasing altitude.

VFR flight above the cloud also poses risks in this area as it's often easier to see breaks in the cloud to climb through rather than finding holes to descend through. It's always nice to see your destination cloud free when choosing this route.

I've had to deal with far too many types of legacy units during my working life.

Chains, links, yards, feets, inches, decimal inches, knots, furlongs, miles, gallons, pounds, quarts, pints, stones, ounces, troy ounces, cooling tons and while there is a bit of a sting initially everyone breaths a sign of relief when SI units are in common use.

Aviation and the associated industry has just been a bit of a retard with respect to this.

Everyone knows that a single system used on a universal basis would produce fewer errors and reduce human factors. Instead we persist with system that no-one uses in their education or in industry.

I know that lots of people will make light of this however every time we fill planes we need to deal with converting quantities which are no longer acceptable in any other industry. Every time we do weight and balance we need to know how many pounds a person weighs. Does anyone under 80 know what their weight is in stones and pounds? And should they?

Otherwise intelligent people froth and scoff simply because they don't want change rather than accepting a common good.

But you know I'm right. 😉

On 15/05/2024 at 2:14 PM, BrendAn said:

does anyone besides me find  it odd that when you listen to awis the wind speed is in knots,  the cloud height is in feet and visibility is in kilometers.

instead of going between imperial and metric why isn't there one standard.

Personally I'd like to see all units and airspace management changed to metric however that process has been put on the back burner.

If Europe ever has a crack at this I'd love Australia to follow.

There are two issues which are summarised by the below.

All people make poor decisions at times. Yes try to do better.

I'm very interested in the best recovery technique and the pros and cons of the two mentioned below.

21 hours ago, Garfly said:

... //  Plan A: Avoid VFR into IMC

The best antidote to a scary VFR into IMC encounter is to set personal minimums reflecting your proficiency level and adjusting them as needed. In addition, use flight-risk assessment tools to make well-informed go/no-go decisions ... ///

 

Plan B: Escape VFR into IMC

Do you have a plan? Execute it immediately. Generally, we are taught to conduct a 180-degree turn to better weather conditions left behind. That could work if making the turn before entering the clouds. Another option could be to climb straight ahead—no turns and a light touch on the flight controls—until you’ve cleared the clouds. This requires little head movement to avoid experiencing spatial disorientation. In addition, you could declare an emergency with ATC. Controllers trained on VFR into IMC flight emergencies can help find better weather to escape to.

On 14/04/2024 at 10:57 AM, Ian said:

Any thoughts about where to hangar aircraft in the region would be welcome. I'm still amazed that the national capital only has a single airport within about 100km.

Trying to bring this vaguely back in the direction of a flying forum rather than the relative merits of subsidies to support a education system for the wealthy.

As I see it.

• Canberra has no GA hangars available at a reasonable so unless you want to keep your plane exposed to the elements its not an option
• Goulburn's ownership is under a bit of a cloud at the moment.
• Currandooley airstrip near lake George is going to be covered by solar panels.
• The ACT Government doesn't see opening a second airport at Williamsdale as a public good and there's a dearth of alternative options in the ACT.
• The Federal Government doesn't see any strategic imperative to open a second airport.
• The Kennedy airstrip in Adaminaby appears to be a nice group, however it's a bit of a hike along a goat track to get there, or longer on bitumen.
• Tumut also seems like a nice place but the comments about goat tracks and distance also apply.
• There appears to be a short private strip between Lanyon Homesteam and Tharwa.
• If there are people who have their own airstrips, there doesn't appear to be a great incentive or appetite to encourage their use by the public.

While it's a long way off topic I tend to support skippy in relation to the funding of education to an extent.

Education is a common good which should be accessible to all and funded by Government on that basis.

Merit is only visible when the playing field is level, and we should want to be able to discriminate merit rather than some other process.

While I understand some that people want to sent their children to be taught by people who believe in X, however this shouldn't be on taxpayers dime as it's not a common good.

4k might be reasonable if hangars were available. I haven't seen any become available for decades. This is the reason so many planes are parked on the grass. There are virtually zero GA businesses left at the airport.

If a hangar was available for $10000 per year plus another $4000 per year you're looking at about $270/week which is a bit of a joke for GA.

Canberra airport has been treated as a real estate asset, and it has monopoly power.

It is exempt from the majority of ACT Government's planning allowing the rapid development of non-aviation infrastructure.

It is too late to fix this mess, however a secondary airport would at least provide some competition.

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

The fact that the affluent haven't migrated to Goulburn is of note.

Not really, it's simply too far away. Canberra is the centre of economic activity with associated remuneration, Goulburn unfortunately isn't. Government is a business like any other and it has an epicentre.

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

If you want to meet a potential market requirement as you appear to be doing, guesswork isn't enough; you have to do the hard yards and go out and talk to the market; they'll give you the whys and why nots on their travel arrangements.

Reading through the proposal it appears a thorough analysis was done in the case of the 2nd Canberra airport including an analysis from Deloitte Access Economics.

https://www.cmd.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/420625/Released_Documents_-_Williamsdale_GA_Airfield_-_DRAFT_Brief.pdf

The ACT is  limited in actual areas where aircraft can operate due to terrain and the controlled airspace.

On 29/04/2024 at 11:52 AM, turboplanner said:

I've read the above linked documents.

I don't believe there was anything there that would normally be used to get an airport going.

It was a case of talking to the wrong people and not understanding the correct process.

The people they contacted should have been more forthright and it wouldn't have extended the way it did.

 

However, the main issue here is Goulburn Airport.

Actually the main issue is the inability for a relatively affluent slice of Australia's population to access an airport. Goulburn being about an hour away is the closest facility.

Given that aviation policy is formulated in an area without access to General Aviation facilities it seems that GA in Australia is pretty much doomed.

MPs only have the choice of flying in the RPT. Imagine the increase in traction for GA if your local member used GA resources to commute to Canberra and back.

Does anyone want to give their local member a lift?

On 29/04/2024 at 7:29 PM, turboplanner said:

Let's put it this way; if you want to post a letter, you don't go to the pub.

There was no last hurdle because there was no horse race.

I might be a bit dim but I don't really understand this. You might have to spell is out.

I'm also not naive, having worked in and around Government for a few decades and now own a business which primarily deals with Government. 

1 hour ago, Garfly said:

That Williamsdale proposal was devised and defeated over a decade ago. 

 

It very much involved the ACT Government.

 

It was a very bitter experience for the aviation enthusiasts who worked up the proposal very professionally only to be tripped at the last hurdle.

 

Posting this link again - a detailed telling of the story from their POV

 

Home | Canberra's Second Airport

WWW.CANBERRASECONDAIRPORT.COM

 

 

 

Are any of these people still around, one thing that I have learnt from Government is that nothing happens quickly. Tying it around some Governments head like a bag of dead fish is often the best approach.

I'd very much be interested on how much the ACT Government has spent with Terry Snow to house their Aviation fire fighting infrastructure there.

This probably would have paid for the Airstrip 10x over.

This is ACT Government. There is no local Government in the ACT, just the state/territory Government which means there is a single PoV across all areas.

It is made up of a combination of Labor and the Greens coalition.

The person in question was Michael Pezzullo head of the Federal Government Department of Home Affairs which is a very different beast. This is the entity responsible for your ASIC.

15 hours ago, Methusala said:

Very wealthy nimbys say...over my corpse!

But that's what I was saying. It's already an industrial power generation site.

It's in the corner of the ACT.

To the east is NSW who are in a totally different electorate.

To the south is NSW.

So the nimbys shouldn't have anyone with decision making powers to complain to.

I had a browse through the website and it looks like it progressed a fair way before going off the rails. Someone spent a lot of time trying to make this work, but it might be marginally healthier than a Norwegian blue.

Williamsdale looks like it now has solar farm infrastructure surrounding it.

Would that impact the utility of this site or does a new site need to be located.

One thing that might go in favour of the site it that it has a different state on 3 sides. No much in the way of voter backlash.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/QwHZSDndVofHEAMU6

What is the Goulburn council  court case?

On 19/04/2024 at 10:11 PM, 10.5 said:

To add some context, the current owner has suffered several heart attacks and is currently facing four serious criminal charges under section 27 of the Work Health and Safety Act 2011.  WorkCover does not take too kindly to businesses killing their customers.  Criminal convictions usually mean one is prevented from operating as a director of a company.   His departure will be universally welcomed as his greatest contribution to Australian aviation.

 

I'd heard rumours of his excellent treatment of aviators and other people.

Given the fact that he never achieved the requirements for the transfer of title it seems odd that it was transferred. But that probably just local Government.

Does Goulburn remain the best option for Canberra fliers?  Is there any intention of Canberra airport, or anywhere else to cater to general aviation at all?

Is anyone who was involved with the Williamsdale site left around?

I actually met a pilot in Cowra who was adamant about chem trails.

When I laughed and told he he was a fruitcake he told me all about the UN conspiracy to take over the world. His conversation revolved around

Chemtrails

Covid Vaccines

A UN conspiracy to take control of all Governments

My view is

Politicians are occasionally corrupt but it about money.

Public servants and bureacrats are often individually smart but collectively stupid.

Hopefully Goulburn council or the Government buys it back at the same price they sold it for.

For those of you who want to fill more than a jerry can. A 200L drum attached to a boat might provide a handy alternative. You can't fill more than a 25L container however there's an exemption for boats.