j230

Thinking of flying to somewhere near Perth , so I need a uncontrolled strip where I can hire a car, leaving from Echuca , has anyone done this trip and can tell me the best track for fuel stops , have about 3 hr endurance at approx. 120knts , any help would be greatly appreciated.Thanks Rhtrudder

Hi I've done the trip four times fuel stops have always been Ceduna Forrest Esperance as I go to Busselton but you could follow railway line Forrest to Kalgoorlie . Forrest has a big hanger you can put your plane in over night also you have to watch out for the great Australian bight sea fog so Forrest is a good stop if you have to. The weather has never been friendly on this run for me as you go through different weather patterns .

 

 

It's a thread dredge. Nearly 6 years old. Nev

It was I follow roads

 

 

Here is the first strip of a trip I have just done. Looking down 03No2 should be easy, we landed on the dirt [180]

Could it be Renmark

 

 

Here is the first strip of a trip I have just done. Looking down 03No2 should be easy, we landed on the dirt [180]

Second strip should be Loxton

 

 

Whats the saftey record like of a Jabiru? Besides pilot error, and maybe... non-factory kit builds.. what is it's saftey record like here in Australia? They look very light and flimbsy, but I'm sure they aren't. I've never seen one up close.Also, I may have misunderstood, but I think I heard the running costs sit at $50/hour inc Maint. Could that be right? That's like a car!

Hi I've been flying jabs for 18 years in all sorts of weather from one side of Australia to the other from Bunderburg toBusselton 300ks south of Perth and never let me down. For the past four years I've owned a j230d fully optioned which has allowed me to fly through some really horrific weather a lot of I.f.r. And has got me there safely. The cost I've found wright across the board to maintain and insure your aircraft properly has been approximately $135 an hour you might think that's a bit steep but my Jab is still as brand new keep your plane upto scratch and it won't let you down flown lots of different planes including G.A and still prefer my jab

 

 

Hi All,Sorry for the late reply on this.

 

Here is what happened:

 

We flew as a group up to Wentworth from Murray Bridge and in that group there were 3 LSA-55's and all were fueled to 60 litres before we left. We flew for around 2 hours and landed in the early afternoon. We then tied down for the night and went to our motels.

 

Next morning we flew to Lake Mungo which was about 35 miles. Prior to flying out one of the LSA's refueled but the other two didn't. I guess it was thought that 36 litres would be sufficient for the flight out and back (no fuel available at Lake Mungo).

 

We got to Lake Mungo with no problems. After departing Mungo Lodge airstrip we did a scenic flight around the Walls of China (a natural feature just out of Mungo Lodge) which added around 20 minutes to our trip time.

 

It was on the way back to Wentworth (about 11 nm short of the field) that the LSA ran out of fuel. Total time flown when he ran out of fuel was about 3.8 or 3.9 which at 12lph and 60 litres should have left a good reserve.

 

As usual there were a few factors that contributed to this accident.

 

1. The pilot was low time and hadn't been away with a group before.

 

2. He usually flies a J160 with lots of fuel capacity.

 

3. The fuel tank in that LSA is fairly opaque and it is quite hard to see the fuel level at times.

 

4. The sister ship to the one that crashed landed back at Wentworth with about 10 litres of fuel remaining so we would have expected the other plane to have about the same -they both burn fuel at around 12 lph.

 

5. The pilot of the crashed LSA didn't realise the pilot of the other LSA had refueled - he was going along with the other guys and not refuelling (he thought).

 

6. You can't lock the fuel tank of the LSA so it is possible fuel was stolen over night from that plane.

 

7. There was a certain amount of peer pressure to get going and keep up with the group.

 

8. The pilot didn't fly high enough or over suitable terrain on the way back from Mungo to enable a safe landing Just In Case.

 

I'm not having a go at the pilot because this sort of thing could happen to any of us if the right circumstances arise. I'm sure he's learned a valuable lesson here and will probably never run out of fuel again. We have no idea why it ran out of fuel when it should have had some left back at Wentworth just like the other LSA.

 

Other lessons we learned from this:

 

Make sure you have an epirb! Pilot didn't take one partially because the plane he usually flies has one mounted all the time. We could talk to the pilot on the ground via mobile and even though he gave us his GPS coordinates we still couldn't find him from the air! He was in a light brown saltpan with the aircraft upside down and covered in dust and mud so it blended in perfectly.

 

For some reason only one plane heard his mayday call. He made it on unicom which we were all monitoring but he probably should have had the area frequency dialled up Just In Case.

 

Anyway, the main thing is they survived and the aircraft will be flying again next week and we all learned lots of lessons.

Hi Thirsty

 

Thanks for the reply. Ive flown many an hour in the jab that went down which was a quite a few years ago, great little plane.

 

Regards Ray

 

 

Agreed. We learnt a lot from this and I'd like to share all of that so hopefully he'll be cool with sharing.

Hi

Have you heard from the pilot on exactly what happened

 

 

no mate, i dont own a jabiru, and no, i wont be buying one, 'to make up my mind'. Seems a rather expensive exercise to me. My mind is made up (for now, see end of post), and i dont see why because you own a jabiru, you have taken my comments as a personal attack on you, because that is not how it is intended. But i stand by what i said. Especially with my luck, I wouldnt want to tempt fate (if something is ever going to go wrong with any product, it will be the one I get). I Appreciate your offer of a flight, but i must decline. I'm only dissapointed that I cant place my trust in Jabiru motors, becuase i would love to be able to support an Australian company. If you are happy to fly them, go for it, more power to you. Its like the old Ford vs. Holden, Nissan vs Toyota. Everyone is entitled to an opinion about a product... but ones opinion about a product means jack all about people who use it.And, you could be well right about problems being attributed to how the engines are being treated, but I cannot draw conclusions from that, not having 1st hand knowledge, or knowing the owners/operators of them. I can only go on statistics. I only wish I could actaully get some solid figures, and have the time to go through a pile of accident investigations. Im happy to be proven wrong, but until then, i will be staying out of jab powered aircraft.

 

edit: to anyone who has access to figures, it would be great if you could compile a list, and populate a time/failure graph.

 

also, does anyone know the failure rate of the 3300? I personally havent heard of many of them failing?

Sorry you took it to hart, it was not meant to be. In all the good coments made by every one yes im the first to admit that Jabiru need to do some tidying up on lots of things but so do all the manufactures on all the aircraft and engines, if you take the time to realy look around as i scruitinise every aircraft and engine that i can get near some of the things you see make your hiar curl and they are straight out of the factory.I see so many mistreated aircraft and engines i just shake my head and walk away but when it fails the por old manufacturer is the first to get blamed even if it is not his fault whether he could have made the product better or not . I know of a 3300 jab moter that will get an oil change when ever and not the oil filter, the owner says when i queried it , said no need to change it, said its okay you dont have to change them every time as its a waste of money, also the aircraft is never taken for a fly first to warm up the oil before draining it . Its only a matter of time before it goes bang and poor old manufacturer will get the blame agian whether it goes bang through design fault or poor maintenace. As some one brought up about shoddy lame people out there i have seen a few and no they are not all like that as there is some very good ones out there. My jab is maintaned 110 percent i do not let any one put a spanner on it as i am an ex heavy mechanic and very fussy about what i do whether its for me or some one else as there is a thing called pride in your work,.Today it seems to be a thing of the past no matter where you look in most cases.

 

Regards Ray

 

no mate, i dont own a jabiru, and no, i wont be buying one, 'to make up my mind'. Seems a rather expensive exercise to me. My mind is made up (for now, see end of post), and i dont see why because you own a jabiru, you have taken my comments as a personal attack on you, because that is not how it is intended. But i stand by what i said. Especially with my luck, I wouldnt want to tempt fate (if something is ever going to go wrong with any product, it will be the one I get). I Appreciate your offer of a flight, but i must decline. I'm only dissapointed that I cant place my trust in Jabiru motors, becuase i would love to be able to support an Australian company. If you are happy to fly them, go for it, more power to you. Its like the old Ford vs. Holden, Nissan vs Toyota. Everyone is entitled to an opinion about a product... but ones opinion about a product means jack all about people who use it.And, you could be well right about problems being attributed to how the engines are being treated, but I cannot draw conclusions from that, not having 1st hand knowledge, or knowing the owners/operators of them. I can only go on statistics. I only wish I could actaully get some solid figures, and have the time to go through a pile of accident investigations. Im happy to be proven wrong, but until then, i will be staying out of jab powered aircraft.

 

edit: to anyone who has access to figures, it would be great if you could compile a list, and populate a time/failure graph.

 

also, does anyone know the failure rate of the 3300? I personally havent heard of many of them failing?

i must add too, well done to the instructor/student.I too am a low hour newly minted 'pilot' and seriously, as much as i love flying and aircraft, if someone offered me a ride in a jab powered aircraft, i think i would give it a miss! I know a failure can happen to any powerplant, not just jabs. I'm a diesel fitter/motor mechanic, and i've seen some catastropic engine failures in industrial motors like cat 3126's that are supposedly bulletproof, but jabs now have such a bad record, i dont think its worth tempting fate honestly. Give me Rotax or lycoming. Hell, give me a greatplains vw, or a subie ea81! I had a subaru brumby with an unopened ea81 with 400k k's on it!

 

My 2c worth

To my 2cents worth

Well you sound just like a typical jab noker. Firstly i had an engine failure and it wasnt a jab moter it was a Rotax but i dont nock Rotaxs as there are plenty of good ones out there. I personly know a jab nocker who had a Savanah with a 100 hp rotax and also nocked jabs even his wife shit canned them.In saying that they now have a j230 and state its the best thing they have ever done and have never had an ounce of trouble with it. I have been flying jabs for 17 years and have never had to put down because of engine trouble. I also fly a j230 and have flown it just about all over Australia and it has never missed a beet . A lot of time it has to do with the way they are treated . If you want to climb them out at 60 or 70 kts yes you will have trouble with them as they get to hot. I know of a j230 that has been continualy climbed out at those speeds and has cooked it 4 times the last time pistons were blue not the moters fault but operaters fault. I know of another 230 which is hamered all the time but climbed out at 90 to 100 kts and has never missed a beet so its more to do with operater missuse or ignorance and not knowing the correct operating procedures. It sounds like you have never owned a jab only taken notice of the bashers. Yes they do have some problems but so do they all and rotax has the same problems exept people dont talk about it so much. THe fly in to Wentworth the other week end and in landing at Renmark there were 20 Jabiru,s there only 3 other brands of aircraft so i gues that must say something At our airfield there are 5 jabs 2 other aircraft and one of the other aircraft even has a jab moter in it. None of us have had an ounce of trouble. You dont see glider tugs with rotaxs in them but you see 170 and 230 jabs towing up full size gliders ,maybe before you can a product you should buy one and treat it correctly and then make up you mind. If you want to come to Kadina airfield i will be only to happy to take you up and you can then make up you mind if you should never get back in one. No im not just a jab lover i have an open mind on all brands of aicraft and engines. Hope your flying goes well in what ever you fly in.

 

Regards Ray

 

P.S dont take this to hart but try to keep an open mind in flying and not listen to much to the nockers on any aircraft .

 

 

Hello Ray, Yes...good to have your own plane again - even if it is only a single seater!

Have flown around 5 hours test flying now but have only just resumed after a couple of months waiting for a new prop.

 

The jabiru prop was OK but not really suited to my type of aircraft (slow and draggy) Have fitted a Brent Thompson unit. 58 x 30 It has given me another couple of hundred revs on take off.

 

The ground run has decreased by around 20 percent and the initial climb rate has gone up to 650/700 feet/min - cruise has not suffered too much and is now around 72 knots.

 

Say G'day to all down there for me and will try to get down in a month or two.

 

Cheers

 

Ron dunn

Hi Ron

Top news will be up there in the next 4 weeks will let you know so you can give us a demonstration flight. Will let you know when we are coming up so it works in with you.

 

Cheers Ray

 

 

The bird being my Evans VP1 that took almost 5 years to build ( make that read refurbished) First flight was on Monday 26 March for a duration of .7 hours and all went well.When I purchased the aircraft it was in a sorry state, having been stored for well over a decade and the engine had been sold.

The restoration went well with a big time delay in the WV conversion that I purchased. It was not up to scratch so I canned it and installed a low hour Jabiru 1600. I am glad I did as I now have a quiet running engine with electric start and it produces as much or more power than the 1600 VW would have. The aircraft has a turtle deck and full canopy and looks quite neat with the Jabiru style cowl.

 

Climb rate at this early stage looks to be around 450 - 500 fpm and may improve a little when I finish the wing root fairings. Indicated airspeed shows 80 knots at 2850 rpm so am fairly pleased at this stage.

 

To all those that are still building - keep at as it is really worth it!

 

Cheers

 

Ron

Hi Ron

Its great to see you have your plane in the air at last you must now be a free bird. If i had known when the maiden flight was i would have flown up for the event, You must have been like a kid at xmas time when you landed , i bet the grin was from ear to ear. Will fly up soon to see you on a Saturday morning when the weather is fine.

 

Regards

 

Ray rhyne J230 Kadina

 

 

Hi Ray,time fly's! Atherton,QLD has been home for 5 years,now living on a boat at Mooloolaba,I do a couple of weeks building at Atherton then a week with the family down here,. Can the jab land on a 300m strip? I am heading off tomorrow to Sherlock S.A. to pick up a Supercat of Flyerme's[he's on this forum and welcomes people to his strip].It would be good to catch up somehow, hows Nadine and Callum?Is he 21 now? Cheers mate,Locky

Hi Locky

Well its good to hear from you yes time fly,s. Callum is 20 and 6ft 6 fed him fertilizer how about your family what are they up to. Sounds good living on a boat we did it for three and a half years on a 50 ft ocean going yacht, what sort of boat do you have and how does Sue like it. Have the kids left home yet. The plane you are picking up is it a super cat and how are you getting it home. The j230 needs at least 600 mts and you have to have things go wright but to be safe you need at least 800 mts . Do you still have any property or is the boat now home. I looked up sherlock and it is only 40minutes from here as the j230 sits on 120kts usualy but you would never land one on a 300 mt strip. Where are you going to keep the plane when you get it back home. How is your shoulder going as you were having quarterzone injections in it when you were here. I have retired now as im heading towards 70 now and have just had both knees replaced and there not going to well yet hoping they get a lot better. Let me know when you are ariving as i might be able to get over to Murry Bridge if we can get over the hills and it is not to far out of your road, i would think it would be 20 to 30 minutes from where you are and then you would head to mannum and on to Mildura if not we will have to try and catch up some other time. Say hallo to Sue and the girls for us .

 

Regards

 

Ray and family 0400713996

 

 

Bourke fule is definitely Shell card! The only reason I remember, is it's the only place I've had to refuel my own aircraft in the last 15 years...

Hi there is no such thing as a SHELL CARD any more only B.P and Mobil carnet cards.

Regards Ray

 

 

HiMy long saved for trip to the Comeroo Camel Station is now taking shape. Plane booked, money saved, accomodation sorted.

 

I am going from Redcliffe to Goondiwindi and refueling, then along the dingo fence to Comeroo.

 

But when I get there I will need fuel. Bourke has fuel, but is a security controlled AD. St George has no fuel, and I can't find anything else around there.

 

I have seen posts on this forum talking about fuel a Bourke. Is there any way to get it without an ASIC?

 

Cheers

 

Ryan

Hi Ryan

I fly a j230 from Kadina S.A and have done the trip to Bundy a few times and there is no pr

 

oblem at Bourke. First of all there is nobody out there but there is a good departure lounge toilets and showers with a kitchen all free. If you have a credit card or a master debit card you dont have a problem also look up your ERSA and ph the fuel contracter rob you wont have a problem. As far as Saint Goerge goes you only have to ph there three days before and arange your fuel as they are very helpfull. They will even come out on Sunday but there is a $20 call out fee which you give to the person who willingly comes out . All fuel at Saint Goerge is cash only. I ph them the night before i leave for Saint Goarge ,the next morning to confirm that i am still coming and half an hour out. Everything is in your ERSA.

 

Regards

 

Ray

 

P.S

 

You dont need an ASIC card there unless you want to show it to the Camels. Maybe its time you aplied for an ASIC card cause if you go to Busselton W.A it has a sign on gates get caught without wearing it and its a $5000 fine

 

 

Hi, my name is Dave Gillieson and I am new to both flying and this forum. I own a Savannah VG based at Atherton and look forward to many hours flying around the Tablelands and further afield.

Hi David

There is a fellow by the name of locky Hill comes from the same part of the world as you just jioned up and is looking to get back into flying, do you know him if not you will find him on the site at the begining , a very interresting guy.

 

Cheers Ray jab j230

 

 

Hello all, Locky here,just joined and enjoying this site already. I am in Atherton and looking at getting back into U/Ls after 6 years off. Keeping my eyes on the classifieds for a trailerable single seater.... Cheers for now.

Hi LockyHow are you and the family.Are you at Atherton Q.L.d or V.I.c. Isent you a couple of emails maybe you did not get them.Its Ray Rhyne from Kadina i had the other thruster just over from you.Still flying now have a J230 Jabiru

Regards

 

Ray

 

 

Hi

 

Ive been flying Jabs for 750 hrs now and yes i have to say the only problem ive had is a couple of noisy camfollowers and when i picked up the new 230 two years ago i had to camp under the wing at Bourke as i ran out of daylight.The next morning it refused to start but there was a quarter of an inch of ice all over the plane. once i drilled out the chocke jet to 1.2ml in the bottom of the fuel bowl ive never had another problem. Some people seem to have more trouble than others and it is iether they are just unlucky or the way they treat them. Saying they are only good for paper weights is a bit rought as Rotaxs have problems to and all other makes none are perfect its just the one you choos and you hope you have a good run out of it.

 

Regards

 

Ray

 

 

Never had a problem since enlarging the idle jet to 1.2mmNo choke used since the mod for two winters now

A real fix recommend by Jab

 

Phil

Never had a problem since enlarging the idle jet to 1.2mmNo choke used since the mod for two winters now

A real fix recommend by Jab

 

Phil