RotorEagle

"I would say most of the smoking holes in the ground were made by HTL machines"

Unfortunately Bones these "smokin holes" usually involved the loss of someones life. I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound as insensitive as I took it:wink:, having personally know gyro pilots who have lost their life- ( I think you would also as the gyro community is fairly small.)

Have seen a lot of your activity on the asra forum and you appear to be a well informed and level headed member

of the gyro scene and I look forward to meeting you at some stage. As I said in a previous post on this topic, I have been out of the scene for quite a while and are using these forums as part of my re-education and find the thrust line debate to be very interesting. I consider my early gyro learning to have been 1st class being fortunate to have been around some of the masters( in my opinion) twenty odd years ago and to have seen the beginning of powered two seat training close up.

As said I am looking forward to meeting you (and others) at some stage and catching up with some old mates and once again enjoying the pleasure of flying these wonderful machines.

Simon McClure.

Negative G in any gyro is not a good thing (can't fly with negative G), but in HTL it's much worse because of likely PPO the instant the rotor becomes unloaded.In well designed LTL and CTL machines a momentary negative G should be recoverable, contrast a HTL (absent things like a massive horizontal stab) even a momentary negative G is going to send you upside down in probably under a second, at that point, it's all over rover.

To state that HTL machines "typically have problems with PPO" is a bit on the strong side. I may be a bit biased still in that I know that many thousands of hours have been flown been flown in HTL machines (not to long ago that was all there was) without every second machine bunting over when there is a bit of gusty weather about.

Any machine should be flown to the current weather conditions and it may be the advantage of a CTL machine that its safe manouvering speed would be higher than an comparable HTL machine in conditions where sudden wind gusts may occur.

I will not dispute the fact that a CLT machine may be a more stable situation but I would not say that they will be the cure all for accidents in gyros.

This is probably not the basis of this topic but I find this part to be a bit contentious.

sorry bout mixing my comments with sleemanj's quotes (this is also my first input to any forum)

sleemanj,

Have been away from gyro scene for awhile but believe that some of your comment/explanation to be a bit misleading.

HTL (High Thrust Line) gyros typically have problems with PPO (Power Push Over, aka, Bunt Over, or more simply, tumbling) ...... if that lift suddenly falls away (negative G typically, really strong gust maybe) then all of a sudden the thrust can tumble you over upside down, this as you can imagine has about a 99% probability in not ending well........

LTL (Low Thrust Line) is far safer in this regard (PPO just isn't realistically going to happen), but the disadvantage is getting that LTL means the cockpit needs to be way up high, with requisite weird looking machines.

 

As I understood negative G in a gyro of ANY configuration can have fatal consequences not just on HTL gyros. A strong gust of wind may have more of an effect on HTL machines than other configs.

 

As I said I have been out of the scene for a while and the thrust line debate was in its very early stages when I was still involved and this will be my first input into any part of the debate. I do not disagree with the view that HTL gyros may be more inherently stable, however at this stage of my re-education I believe that every configuration has its trade offs and I Know that no aircraft ever flown is immune to pilot error and that C/LTL machines are still open to this vital part of the aviaiting experience.

 

I to would welcome any correction/input to my comments.