K-man

Just a question from someone who knows nothing about trikes. It would seem the rate of descent was more than 1000' per minute and the landing speed around 60mph. Would that be optimal in an engine out situation and what would be the rate of descent and approach speed normally? How much control do you have over speed and ROD without power?

This is just tragic Even well trained and highly qualified pilots can do it under pressure.Always, always, check your flight controls. There is no excuse. It takes a few seconds, and ultimately once you get into the air, they're the only thing you've got! You can possibly scrape by without everything else.

 

http://www.c-130.net/c-130-news-article291.html

Just for interest, I've come across this article detailing crashes of LSA in the US. Health issues don't rate a mention. Mind you, Jabiru had no fatalities in this survey. Perhaps they are all younger Jabi pilots over there.

http://jabiru.net.au/images/The%20Aviation%20Consumer%20-%20LSA%20Accidents.pdf

You are making a lot of unsubstantiated statements. Where did you access the age details of Jabiru pilots who have died? The only research I have seen (not Jabiru) was that conducted in the US which showed nothing to substantiate your claim that older pilots are more likely to experience medical issues while flying. In fact very few pilots experience health issues while flying possibly because we are all aware of that danger and would not fly if we thought we were likely to have a heart attack or other problem.

You believe Jabiru are the best ultralights and you are entitled to your opinion. I would suggest that Jabiru aircraft are popular because they are affordable, not because they are the best. I have quite a few hours in J160s and never had an issue. I have a number of friends who built their own J160s and again they haven't any problems, except of course they are all 'old' people. Unfortunately for Jabiru and Jabiru owners there have been many documented engine failures and the fallout from that had not been handled well from the manufacturer's end, nothing to do with the age of the pilots.

Besides human error / mechanical failure has anyone wondered that the fatalities in a Jabiru could have been due to a medical emergency or cardiac arrest while the pilot was flying. It is quite possible that the pilot would have collapsed or died at the controls which led to the crash, as most pilots who died were very senior (and elderly) pilots. I guess Jabiru despite its bad name for the engine failures is one of the safest ultralight to date.

Avplan for me.

According to channel 7 news the pilot was Ian Cook from Mt Evelyn and he had recently bought the trike from Peter McLean. Nothing to say anyone had done anything wrong but did mention that there were dust devils near the strip.

Had a prang, was removed maybe for lengthy repairs. Doesn't mean it wasn't reg now.

http://flysafe.raa.asn.au/admin/aircraft_database_registration.html

Another search shows that number is not currently registered. It was removed from the register in 2010.

Following the posting of the picture above I did a quick search for that rego. It's not the first time that Jabi has had problems. The following was posted nearly 9 years back.

There was a news story on our local Prime TV.Aircraft was a Jabiru, rego 55-3692. It was a training flight and the students second flight. Instructor was an eldery gentleman named Rod Hay. Unknown what airfield they were from.

 

Rod said that there was a lot of vibration coming from the engine and then it died. He put it down on a slope in a paddock. He said he pointed it up the hill and pitched it up.

 

It looked like a fair amount of damage to the landing gear. Both occupants unhurt.

I didn't bother with an ASIC card until I applied for my RPL about eight months ago. My wife had an ASIC and that was sufficient for both of us. The only place we ever needed to produce it was Ayres Rock. Seriously, the guy there was obviously trained by Hitler's own security personal. Fly there without an ASIC at your peril. Spend more than 30 minutes refuelling and you will be charged. Good grief! They must be expecting terrorists to blow up The Rock.

I think it is not just black and white. The regs state clearly that you must make whatever calls are necessary to ensure safety so as long as a call gives an accurate description of your position and is within the vocabulary of aviation, it's fair game. There are several mandatory calls but common sense dictates when you might add to those.

If I were joining downwind from greater than normal distance I would call 'joining long downwind'. At the other end, if more separation was required I would be 'extending downwind'. Several times I've been on final when an aircraft has begun to enter the strip in front of me. On those occasions I have called 'xxx is late final' to warn them to stay where they are. At Lilydale we have parachuting operations so there are no midfield crosswind joins so 'joining crosswind' can be pretty vague. If there is traffic I would normally add 'north (or south) of the strip' to clarify.

Now have the option of joining base and the 'turning final' call is no longer mandatory. If that call is not clear and there is downwind traffic there is potential for disaster. Couple this with the fact that many of us are sharing the skies with foreign students with limited English language skills, we need to be very clear when we broadcast our position and intentions.

To be honest, if you just polished our Pioneer 300 and put it under the tree, I'd be more than happy. There are a number of beautiful aircraft out there but nothing I'd swap my 300 for.

I'm saddened by this news. We always expect it to be inexperienced pilots coming down, yet over the last few years we have lost a lot of very experienced people. I think the take home message is, flying is inherently dangerous and we all fly knowing the risks. I'm sure that Ross understood the risks perfectly and as a result flew safely for decades. We don't yet know what went wrong here but it is a salient reminder that we must all be on our best game each time we fly and even then tragedies can still happen.

This thread is a great tribute to a top guy.

RIP.

We had the absurd situation in Melbourne recently where the government released new land under the flight path at Melbourne Airport. Melbourne doesn't have the curfew that plagues Sydney and introducing one because of stupid government dealings will adversely affect the whole state.

Different combinations of words mean different things to different people. If that were not the case we wouldn't need 501,000 solicitors in Australia. They make a fortune playing their game, arguing all sorts or abstract positions. That then involves the umpires (judges) who adjudicate and set a precedent for future games.

Every piece of legislation follows that line as often there are unintentional meanings possible. To stop all the wheels grinding to a halt while legislation is amended or redrafted, both options that can again allow the same multiple interpretations, the law follow precedent, most often the intent of the legislation.

I would suggest that rather than jump up and down over legalities people should just keep doing what is being done and shut up and fly. If you think something is wrong and changing it will provide a better outcome for everyone then by all means go for it but I fail to see that this conversation is doing that.

How often a problem?Never, because I am a sad git who likes legislation and reads it - ALL of it

I think it 1,000' above the highest obstacle also, so the confusion goes on. How many approaches to aerodromes can you glide to a safe landing anywhere near it or clear of buildings?. The take off situation is worse, and what if you are doing a 500' circuit as approved for your category of aircraft, and a very draggy aircraft? Nev

I have no idea of what aircraft have a 500' circuit apart from the fact that they are low speed variety. If they were flying into an airport like Moorabbin they would be directed in at 1000' anyway. I don't know of any uncontrolled airports in the middle of a town or city. So let's get real. How many times has it been a problem for you?

What this thread clearly shows more than anything else is just how stupid it is to try and regulate an activity by setting out a series of regulations under different categories and then giving exemptions from those regulations.

In the case at hand what is confusing? You fly over a built up area at a minimum 1000' AGL. That's pretty straight forward. You should also fly at a height that, in the event of an engine failure, you can glide to a clear area. If you are landing, circuit height for most aircraft likely to be flying over towns is 1000'. GA aircraft tend to drag themselves in with power on but most RA aircraft can start final at 1000' and still land easily, and yes we can fly below 1000' to land. What is so hard to follow?

I am constantly amazed at how some people can manage to make relatively simple things complex.

The advice given below is as good as it gets.

Keep one hand on the controls; keep the intent of the rules and exemptions in your head as far as you can, and fly as safely as you can, as often as you can.

I have the feeling the Ada Elle may have gone to the Fly Tornado school of Trolls.

With that said,, RAAus would be better off implementing a succession plan to encourage new members and flyers..Instead we have a big police man attitude with a big stick.. I can tell you that regime with make people run a mile, so when someone is thinking about taking up flying and is surprised/shocked with that rot they run away and never to return.

Regards,

 

KP.

It is a lot easier to add photos to FB, all you have to do on a iphone or Ipad is simply tick the photo and the press one button.I have plenty on there but none on here, too many hoops to jump through with resizing ect. I find it to difficult.

Anyone flying into Daly Waters on 14 will naturally be landing a little long due to the trees growing through the Tarmac at that end of the strip. A number of us landed there on a flyaway a couple of years back coming in over the top of a caravan and four wheel drive parked on the piano keys. The driver came over as we were tying down surprised that the strip was still in use when you have such serious shrubbery growing on it. He said, after the first plane came in he was too scared to move so just stayed where he was until we had all landed.

Possibly the best photo of the sort of crash damage that a Jabiru has protected the occupants in: Wedderburn, 2001, result: one badly sprained ankle, two occupants walked/hopped away.:Rans RV6, VH-TXF, 2014, double fatality:

I have noticed that many deaths and injuries that occur in RAA fixed wing aircraft appear to occur when attempting an emergency landing after an engine failure. As “Recreational” aircraft they do not meet the same build and maintenance standards of GA aircraft. Even so I do not think this is a major factor as certified engines can also fail.When I fly I only fly over areas that I know I can safely land on which seems to be the mantra for many pilots. But what abilities do these modern day RAA aircraft actually have to land on anything other than bitumen or high grade dirt and grass runways. If your aircraft does not have the ability to land in a paddock without shedding undercarriage flipping over and killing or maiming all on board then why are you flying over it? If you cannot glide to an appropriate site then you should never have been there in the first place. Remember your last flight and then imagine an engine out at ANY stage of that flight where you would be trying to land on ground that was not appropriate for your aircraft. If you wish to fly over water then flotation devices are required. Aircraft that fly over their tiger country should also be require to either have safety devices like ballistic chutes or not be there. I understand that what is tiger country for some is not for others but if you crash your Jabiru/Tecnam etc in a paddock because it has little wheels and undercarriage not up to the job then as the pilot in control you should wear the blame not the engine manufacturer.

 

John