speed_racer

Jeffd the instructor in question after the 2nd lesson in an unfamiliar plane did not make allowances for that , i had previously flown only Cessna,s totally different and heavier ,after complaints to the CFI was told this had happened beforei would not fly with him again to my detriment this cost me more money and the end was not in sight (money hungary) told me that it would take 40 more lessons , I left in disgust and did it all in 10 at a much more professional run school

now i am free to fly anytime , and our plane is at the final stage for testing ,lots more flying

 

cheers Gareth

if i got abuse from the instructor I would refuse to pay for that lesson.. or if it was light enough I'd just simply tell him to get f***ed. similar to 'f** off you princess' which I have used in the past when the CFI has had 'his' rags... ;)

Speed_racer,It comes down to if you are happy to pay for the services that they are providing. I suspect that if you are flying from Moorabbin, then you will be paying a premium for that service. Depending on where you are located around Melbourne, there are places like Ballarat, Coldstream, Tyabb and Tooradin who provide RAA training, at what I would expect a more competitive price than a Moorabbin school, plus you would spend more time each flight in the air, rather than on the ground taxing.

I fly out of Tyabb from the Peninsula Aero Club. They do both RAA and GA training, and all of their RAA aircraft are maintained to GA standards thanks to the requirements of some of their customer base. They have Gazelles (which they are phasing out), a Foxbat ( which I believe they are getting more of to replace the Gazelles), and an RAA registered Cessna 162.

 

I believe that Tooradin have Jab's (160 and 170) if you want to stay with the Jab's

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

Cheers,

 

Joe

I do like the foxbats, but tyabb each sunday is a bit too far for me. I have flown down to tooradin for my CTAF lessons before.

If only Essendon wasnt so expensive as its just around the corner. :)

Id prefer not to fly jab's as its like learning to drive in a 1980's hyundai.. hehe but its just what the schools have

Is your landing reference point the piano keys or numbers at the BEGINNING or the OTHER END of the strip? Aiming beyond and landing too far after the first set of keys is not recommended as you might go to a short strip and what was OK on a long strip can become fraught on anything smaller. Landing close to the first set of keys gives you max landing and rolling distances.Does your school have the aircraft manual on hand or in the plane? - have you read the PILOT'S OPERATING HANDBOOK & APPROVED FLIGHT MANUAL? They are supposed to be in the plane. There is some interesting info in there including operational limits and emergency procedures recommended by the manufacturer There is nothing about checking brake fluid before flights but there is nothing to stop you including it in your preflight checks - but be aware that getting dirt and water vapour into the hydraulics is frownable. You can download a copy from the Jabiru site. Print off your own copy, compare it to the one for the plane and keep it along with annotations.

 

Enjoy!!

operating handbook is not in the plane, they do however have a print out of the pre start/taxi/line up checks and also speeds for 'whichever' configuration..

Speedy i wont sit on the fence. Absolutely you should change immediately. Dont fly one more second with these guys.Reason 1 you have safety concerns that had a completely reckless an innappropriate response from the cfi

Reason 2 your safety concerns where realised by poor performing and or maintained aircraft

 

Reason 3 your life is worth more then your pride or relationship with these guys

 

Reason 4 the training school should have checked the fluid level for first flight of the day. And each subsequent flight if it was a known issue. Better still the plain should have been grounded till fixed in a training school.

 

Not. Only do i think you should leave but i think you should fill out 3 incident reports to casa and you should include the cfi response in your incident report. The last thing we all want or need is training schools promoting reckless attitudes to safety and or maint. That will just mean there are a hundred more pilots out there that shouldnt be flying like this cfi

 

I dont get angry much but this makes me fume that a cfi would be so reckless, and thus some students are being trained by him to be reckless in their safety.

A tail wind and high idle speed will certainly complicate things for you. Your landing roll could be reduced under these circumstances by switching the engine off - that will stop the thrust. Doing this saved me once in a trike :)Laurie

Speedy..Some things are starting to ring alarm bells. Is 60 kts your normal approach speed? Do you normally approach using one stage of flap only?How many touch and goes did you do after realising you had no brakes?

1 touch and go because initially when I asked for a stop and go, my request was denied as a piper was approaching behind me.

What this sounds like is quite a strong tail wind, and some inadvertent throttle; the average Jab brakes would have been overcome by this, and if you were working the lever hard all the way down the runway a seal may have burst, letting oil escape.A C150/152 can do a full stop landing on those piano keys with brakes, and landing into wind I'd expect a Jab to be able to get off at the first or second exit without using brakes.

Because the plane was an old POS andthat the tower was warned after my pre solo check that if I didn't respond on the radio it was because there was an issue with the radio but they replaced wiring and they think that should of fixed it, I asked if one of the newer planes was available as i dropped the CFI off, and he said they might be back but do your solo in this plane as you were just checked in it..

Anyway the master cylinder was empty when i checked it after landing and stopping on the grass in front of the clubhouse. So a lesson learnt there..

Speed_racer,It comes down to if you are happy to pay for the services that they are providing. I suspect that if you are flying from Moorabbin, then you will be paying a premium for that service. Depending on where you are located around Melbourne, there are places like Ballarat, Coldstream, Tyabb and Tooradin who provide RAA training, at what I would expect a more competitive price than a Moorabbin school, plus you would spend more time each flight in the air, rather than on the ground taxing.

I fly out of Tyabb from the Peninsula Aero Club. They do both RAA and GA training, and all of their RAA aircraft are maintained to GA standards thanks to the requirements of some of their customer base. They have Gazelles (which they are phasing out), a Foxbat ( which I believe they are getting more of to replace the Gazelles), and an RAA registered Cessna 162.

 

I believe that Tooradin have Jab's (160 and 170) if you want to stay with the Jab's

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

Cheers,

 

Joe

Thanks for that. That sounds great. Its a bit more of a hike from the city but certainly worth looking into. I had the opportunity to fly a foxbat and loved it. Felt more like a cessna i flew on a trial as it had the wheel.

Cheers,

Troy

A couple of things said in your posts concern me a bit speedy - 'the brakes worked during taxi' followed by 'there was no brake fluid at all'. Then you go on to say you used all the runway at Moorabin on landing - you may need some remedial work on landing speeds because from memory Moorabin's runways are pretty long. Laurie

In any other day I have done this, I would of been able to pull up on the piano keys but the crosswind turned to a tailwind which meant my IAS was a lot faster ground speed.. But why am i telling you this.. your an experienced pilot and would be able to make that call on your own wouldnt you? ;)

All the Jabiru manuals can be downloaded from the Jabiru website here. Pre-flight procedures can be found on page 4-3 (Section 4 page 3) of the Pilot Handbook.After a quick scan of the preflight procedures I can't see anything about checking brake fluid...only the actual brakes.

speed racer your story is getting worse If anyone has a copy of the pre flight for a jab and don't tell me you have not read the flight manual for the plane that you are learning inif not why not

neil

As others have said, finding out you have no brakes in the air is YOUR problem. The Jab flight manual insists on a thorough check of the brake fluid and a taxi check of the brakes.

MozartMerv, Now in relation to your jab manual or laminated sheet the school provided, there is no mention of brake fluid checks..

I appreciate the conversation and advice. but no bitchy attitudes or remarks please.

As a new pilot, this all seems concerningget your bloody **** out of there now I don't like what you have written one bit

when was the last inspection off this school done

 

if you were told that something happens all the time there is a problem with their duty of care and management

 

please don't be a statistic and another reason for casa to become involved this in my opion should investagated thourghly neil

motzartmerv, the planes are parked on grass.. so if there is a leak it was undetectable. if the brakes faded, that would be fair enough.. But the fact that it had no brake fluid is very concerning.. its a $10 bottle that could of easily fixed it and its just something that I will now check myself and not rely on the school's check flight list. If anyone has a copy of the pre flight for a jab and could link it to me, i would much appreciate it. thanks heaps!

Thanks for your advice guys. I might have a squizz around at some different schools and see what others will offer RA training within moorabbin. I've always been keen to fly a tecnam but it seems as though you have to drive out to horsham or stawell (in VIC) to fly one of those.

Thanks for the advice guys. No one wants to advise either way so perhaps ill ask a different way, if you were hiring a plane from someone, would you rehire from them if you came across these issues?

In terms of checking the brake during taxi, I did.. During my pre solo check it worked not good but about average for a jab.. Even on run up checks, it started to move until i put the brake on one more click..

My lesson learnt here is to include brake fluid in the pre flight, they never mentioned it in the check list I was given..

It was ready for its 50 hour maintenance check too..

Hi all,

I'm writing this post to ask for your fellow pilots advice..

I have done 28 hours of flying with 0.5 hours left to complete my solo circuits. I thought this is what I had left to get my solo certificate for my RA licence. However I have been advised by the CFI that I still need to do my training syllabus of prac search and landing, advanced stalls and short field take off and landings. (i have done short field so i need to discuss that with them)

My problems I have came across are..

1. While flying a jabiru J160 (late model) We had a rough running engine while taking off after a glide approach and had to call stopping and put it down on the remaining runway. That was a throughbolt issue with the engine which required a rebuild.

2. While flying solo in the same aircraft a few weeks later I experienced something similar during a touch and go and landed on the remaining runway. This grounded the plane was put down to carby icing and later was advised the planes were running lean and are now richer so only to turn on carby heat when below 2800rpm on base before final and only throttle slowly with 5 to 10 seconds between idle and full rpm during take off.

3. Last weekend I was given one of their older planes and after a pre solo check, I went solo to find during downwind, the brakes didn't pump up as expected, I asked for a stop and go which confirmed while on the ground I had no brakes, so next one i advised the tower of the problem and used full flaps and used every bit of runway hoping to not hit the fence, I successfully landed and slowed it down enough by the end to taxi to the apron. It turned out there was no brake fluid left, during my pre flight checks I did not see any leak from the calipers as they are parked on grass. The CFI's excuse was oh that happens all the time, especially during summer because people ride the brakes and they fade away, I told him its no excuse and brake fade is usually pumped out during the downwind component of the circuit.

As a new pilot, this all seems concerning, so my question is, am i being paranoid or should I use a different flying school at moorabbin?

My first landing was an experience because I let my speed drop to around 60 knots over the fence and it suddenly stopped flying about 6' off the ground. Once the throttle was chopped and the nose lifted, the T tail elevators didn't respond as expected (by me). Embarrassing!Kaz

Lol I had the opposite problem, I come in too fast and when i flare i end up floating half way down the runway hehe

Thanks guys, and

Av8ta: Contratulations on your solo as well.. it sure is the best feeling, did you get it on video?

I was so lucky that the flying school had a gopro mount for Trial Flights so i could shove my gopro on the mount :D

Thanks heaps guys! its def one ticked off the bucket list ;)

The CFI kept checking the weather from Moorabbin ground and said we have a first solo but we just want to check that bad weather isnt here, Moorabbin ground replied 'the rain is already here so you will be right." haha, so the CFI jumped out and i taxied off..

The hardest part of it was to remember the radio calls (and the crosswind during landing..) So I switched over to Tower freq and listened to the 2 planes in front radio calls as they were ready for take off. It felt funny to look over and not see the instructor sitting next to me..

So the take off and landing I thought was pretty good for a first solo :)

It felt awesome once i landed, plus tower gave a 8052, a big contratulations on your first solo! hehe

I think its the same for everyone but I will remember that first solo flight for the rest of my life.

I found the stalls anti climatic as well.. I havent done advanced stalling yet but I'm learning in a jab 160.. when u drop off the power and pull back until the stall warning goes off.. it didnt drop forward like it was supposed too.. it just started to drop altitude but with the same AoA (falling flat).. Then when u move the stick forward, you pull out.. Perhaps its because the jab's are pretty forgiving in a stall? I was expecting the plane to drop forwards but nope, not within the hour of stall training..

Thanks guys! Thats because racer X and I dont look alike :P

So you guys did the air law n radio without reading anything? i was told its easy but.. wasnt sure it was that easy.. Human Factors was meant to be easy but I was told the course was compulsory to do before the exam, and the course i did was s h i t!! conflicting answers to whats in contrast of the exam (missed out by one question). Anyway I found there is a torrent seed for the 'practice exam' and what do you know, 100% pass the second time :D

Hi Guys,

Long time reader, first time poster :P

I have my first solo popping up this sunday but in the morning I had to get the Air Law and Radio exams out the way.. so I was on here reading up on the stuff and thought id broadcast a hotel echo lima lima oscar to everyone :D