Vision325

You will have to excuse my memory of Flight Designs explanation of their hybrid concept engine but the figures they put forward required to charge the batteries was something like %5 extra in cruise.

This engine has been built and was on display so their figures weren't only theoretical so it may be interesting.

Their reasoning was that they would save some weight by the fact that they would require a smaller hp engine with the extra hp coming from the electric motor at peak power settings.

The weight gain was quite reasonable as there was no need for large batteries due to the short duration of the electric assistance.

I hope this makes things clearer.

Their explanation made a lot more sense when I was their. My brain got fried with 7 days 12 hours a day racing from one exhibit/forum to the next.

Before Oshkosh I was skeptical about hybrids but I have a bit better understanding of how they could fill a gap while battery technology improves.

Time will tell.

Powered Electric Flight

I agree about the sapphire being an excellent candidate to try out electric flight with.

Any body got one they would like to donate to experiment with.

Another avenue that is fast advancing to larger and larger electric flight

HobbyKing Online R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy CA120-70 Brushless Outrunner (100cc eq)

It is only a matter of time before these guys start to think of the manned flight

market.

In regards to fuel cells they suffer from inefficiency problems at the moment but they

look promising. I believe there are fuel cell being developed that can use petroleum based fuels also.

At Oshkosh Flight Designs had an interesting concept where they had from memory a Rotax 4 stroke with a electric motor mounted on top of it coupled by a belt drive.

During take off the electric motor and the rotax worked together to increase power.

Then in cruise the Rotax charged the small battery using the electric motor as a generator. This seemed to be a good stepping stone to full electric flight.

Flight Design - Light Sport Aircraft

Steve

Powered Electric Flight

The web sites that are around are very limited in detail.

This is a link to the main speakers

The Future of Electric Flight - Symposium

Even Yuneec who are one of the most advanced hard ware makers said they wouldn't be releasing their motors until next year. Any way its really all about the battery densities . I think at the moment that the available LiPo batteries supply 0.25kw/hr per kg and they realistically need to be 2.35kw/hr per kg to match existing Ga internal combustion engines.

Chet Fuller – President, GE Aviation Commercial Systems stated GE had developed a motor with integrated motor control that is 97% efficient. This means that batteries only have to contain approx half the usable energy to be equivalent to petroleum based fuels as internal combustion engines lose approx 50% of their efficiency due to heat loses etc .

Other problems are how to get the energy into the batteries in reasonable time say 30 mins.

Also developing batteries that don't lose their ability to hold a full charge.

I think from memory after 400 hrs flight time you need to replace LiPo batteries as they would only hold 70% of their original capacity.

I had the feeling all these speakers would love to have said more but were trying to get the jump on the technology so were all holding back.

With the amount of money poring into Battery technology it is just a matter of time before they become very common. I cant wait!

Stephen

Hi De Duk

I was lucky enough to go to Oshkosh this year and was specifically interested in

electric flight. I attended the electric flight symposium there.

It was a great listening to a lot of big hitters explaining their views and where their company's were at in regards to producing the technology and hardware required

for realistic electric flight.

If there was a consensus amongst the speakers it was that electric flight from the smallest aircraft to large passenger planes was inevitable.

They all agreed that the didn't see any plateauing of battery technology in the foreseeable future and that the problems of battery weight etc will be over come.

They felt that it was about five years until the first commercially acceptable two seat two hour flight trainer with a half hour charge time would be commercially available.

Burt Rutan is working on electric projects but wouldn't be drawn on specifics.

I learnt a lot at Oshkosh this year and the future looks very bright for electric

aircraft.

Stephen

Thanks for the info Guys.

No I haven't been before so I will take your advice. I am really getting excited now I have booked my tickets.

I will be borrowing my daughters SLR camera to take as many photos as I can. I really feel electric aircraft have a bright future in

recreational aviation. Must admit with my back ground as an Instrument Technician I feel more comfortable working with electrics.

Hope to catch up with any fellow forum members while I'm there.

Steve

I have decided go to Oshkosh this year and was wondering if there is

some where the other Aussies meet up?

I am going to camp there and am really interested in seeing the electric

powered aircraft that will be on display.

Steve

Brilliant:laugh:

Sierra building

Great work Toby,

Thanks for posting updates. Its good to see you making such fast progress.

This is the aircraft I hope to build in the future.

I have looked at the DVDs from Gary and am impressed with the simple and practical solutions he uses in his kit making philosophy. I have looked over every bit of info and photo I can find on the net and your blog, keep up the good work. Gary dosn't update his web page much so the interested potential builders rely on guys like you and Slarti

for the latest info.(Thanks again:clap:)

One question I have about the fuselage frame material. The Cheetah that Slati built

looked to be made from round tubing but your sierra is square tube. Do you know the

reason for this and what material the tube is?

Also do you know of any builders in SE Qld, Im on the Sunshine Coast.

I am keen to get a look at a Cheetah/Sierra first hand.

Happy building Steve

electric motors

These guys seem to be developing motors with some grunt.

Enstroj - Electric Apis EA1 - OUR PRODUCTS - Electric Motors - electric propulsion systems for air-planes

MAY 2009 - A new ultra high powered - 60 kW, low RPM - up to 2800 RPM, high torque, low weight -12kg, Air or Liquid cooling electric motor is comming.

At the same time we are preparing all things for serial production of 30 kW(40kWp)/1900 RPM electric motors, controllers with chargers included . Much lower price (as individual production) for them will be knowm in near future.

4 Seat Cougar

Gary Morgan is developing a 4 seat kit dont know much about it though.

Its called the Cougar http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~gkmorgan/

Steve

Hi Tony,

I was confronted by the same problem of what to do after I got my rec licence:confused:.

I ended up doing 8 hours training and then stopped because I felt wanted my own aircraft to fly afterwards to keep my newly gained skills. I didnt have the money to buy a Jab or simular up front so I decided to build my own aircraft and spred the costs out over a longer period of time.

I feel it will add to the over all flying experience if you are able to build and then fly where ever you want.

I am keen on building a Cheetah or Sierra from Morgan Aero Works.

I am in Buderim so if you are interested in more info PM me.

We seem to be surrounded by flying schools on the Sunshine Coast. I am certainly

looking forward to completing my training.

Steve

Hi Jim,

Good to here of your RV12 wing kit purchase.

I noticed a post from a expat aussie living in the US who imports cars to Australia from the US. It was on the Vans airforce site.

He has requested anybody who is importing kits from the US and requires help with shipping to contact him as he has regular container shipments to Australia.

Delivery time for the wings - Page 2 - VAF Forums

Hope this helps

Steve

List of Kit forums

Hi All,

Here are a few suggestions to get the ball rolling.

Firstly

1. A kit builders personal introduction.

2. New kit suppliers and hardware suppliers announcements.

3. General questions How to where to ect?

4. Technology, design innovations.

5. Rag and tube builders.

6. Aluminum builders.

7. Wood builders

8. Composite builders

9. Fire wall forward discussion.

10. Completed kits first flights ect

These could form the basic frame work of the kit forum and hopefully others will come up with suggestions to fill any gaps.

A kit builders list of who's building what and where would be handy.

A good suggestion by micgrace regarding a member generated database of equipment or suppliers/supplies would be advantageous.This may also act as an avenue for members to find products that could be sold through Clear Prop. Or if enough interest is generated for members to manufacture and sell difficult to find items through Clear Prop.

Just a thought anyway.

Regards Steve

Millenium Price

Wow! scary figures,

Wouldn't it be easier to design our own.

Now that would be an interesting project.

With all the Know how participating in this forum it could be possible.

Steve

Why Math is taught in School

I was riding to work yesterday when I observed a female driver cut right in front of a pickup truck, causing him to have to drive onto the shoulder to avoid hitting her.

This evidently angered the driver enough that he hung his arm out his window and gave the woman the finger.

"Man, that guy is stupid," I thought to myself.

I ALWAYS smile nicely and wave in a sheepish manner whenever a female does anything to me in traffic, and here's why I drive 48 miles each way every day to work. That's 96 miles each day.

Of these, 16 miles each way is bumper-to-bumper. Most of the bumper-to-bumper is on an 8 lane highway.

There are 7 cars every 40 feet for 32 miles. That works out to be 982 cars every mile, or 31,424 cars.

Even though the rest of the 32 miles is not bumper-to-bumper, I figure I pass at least another 4000 cars.

That brings the number to so! meeting like 36,000 cars that I pass every day. Statistically, females drive half of these.

That's 18,000 women drivers!

In any given group of females, 1 in 28 has PMS. That's 642.

According to Cosmopolitan, 70% describe their love life is dissatisfying or unrewarding.

That's 449.

According to the National Institute of Health, 22% of all females have seriously considered suicide or homicide.

That's 98.

And 34% describe men as their biggest problem. That's 33.

According to the National Rifle Association, 5% of all females carry weapons and this number is increasing.

That means that EVERY SINGLE DAY, I drive past at least one female that has a lousy love life, thinks men are her biggest problem, has seriously considered suicide or homicide, has PMS, and is armed.

Give one the finger? ...... I think not.

Regards Stephen

rans s19

The Rans S-19 is 799lbs (362.4kgs) empty which makes it a bit on the heavy side.

The Vans RV 12 looks great and they are shipping wing kits first.One of which will be on its way to Australia soon.Check out this vans forum. Feed back from builders so far seems positive

RV-12 - VAF Forums

Steve

Check this out. Crazy Russians ;)!

http://www.russiatoday.ru/scitech/news/23189

I dont know if it is close to a true road registered flying car but it sure looks like fun.

Regards Steve

RV12

HI Phil

I am located in Buderim. Sunshine Coast Qld

Regards steve

Hi Tucan,

Welcome , the RV 12 looks like a great aircraft for recreational flying.

Here are a few sites of interest. I am a looking at the logistics of importing a kit.

The first wing kits are already being assembled in the U.S.

Vans RV 12 site

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int.htm

RV 12 Forum

RV-12 - VAF Forums

First wing kit to be assembled

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/Jim_Cone/

Hope this helps

Steve

Hi Downunder,

Great looking aircraft but has a bit heavy empty weight.

Steve

The great thing about the Zenith kit is it can be bought in partial kits and is a proven aircraft. Aussie dollar is also appreciating against the US dollar. The rudder kit is about $500 dollars from memory and a great way to see if building is for you.

I think the brumby is purchased as a complete fire wall backward kit which can be a large cost up front.

Have you checked out the Rans new S19 http://www.rans.com/S-19.htm#

or the soon to be available available Vans RV-12

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int.htm

These are a couple of aircraft that would make great recreational aircraft. The S19 is a little heavy at 790lbs (358 kgs) mtow. but real sexy!

The RV 12 looks great and has a pair of quick remove wings

and a great company reputation.

Regards Steve

Geared toward the new Light Sport Aircraft category, the Personal Cruiser has the design goal of being safe, affordable, fun to fly, simple and quick to build. A bit of a tall order but by using the recently perfected Foldaplane technique, minimal finishing work is required and nearly all of the parts are shipped "normal" UPS saving hundreds of dollars on truck freight. Great for our friends around the globe too.

The Personal Cruiser uses the proven Corvair automotive engine converted for aircraft use. The Personal Cruiser is specifically designed

for an engine weight of 200-245lbs making it suitable for many alternative engines available today.

The Personal Cruiser will have an awesome climb out capability while also being able to cruise along at 120-150 mph. Burning between 2.5 and 4 gallons per hour will make the Cruiser an affordable way to fly. With the light wing loading and clean design the Personal Cruiser will be an "easy" flyer making it an ideal first plane or a great last plane - the one just for you!

[ATTACH]386[/ATTACH]

With a generous 29.5" wide cabin, it will accommodate pilots of all sizes and with 100hp will have no trouble getting over the trees either.

The plane can be built easily in one stall of a garage - with final assembly at the airport.

Progress on the proto-type continues and we hope to be test flying soon. We will not be taking orders until the Cruiser flies and is thoroughly tested. If you would like to be one of the first to be on list when it is ready please click here.

Hi Ken,

The format I suggested isnt new tecnology the difference would be that it would be centrally coordinated and available for all flight schools and students to access.

It could become a frame work for any RAAus people to use for many purposes.

This cost of this technology would have to be spread across the industry.

I assume as an progressive organization the Raaus must be looking to always improve training.

The way I see it is that it will be done as lilydale airport has done as a go it alone approach or it can be a coordinated effort.

The site itself could be set up to recruit new students and then refered to suitable flight schools.

Regards Stephen

Hi guys,

I have been reading this forum for a while now and it is really inspiring to see people with real passion for what they do. I have been doing a lot of research in something that interests me a great deal and that is learning and teaching techniques. I’ve read of people wondering if recreational aviation has peaked and my feeling is that we haven’t even scratched the surface of what is possible. The biggest obstacle to growing this enlightening pass time in my opinion is the limited training systems employed and the perceived negative safety aspect of flying.

We seem to be making great gains on improving cockpit ergonomics and pilot aircraft interface (glass cockpits, gps, ect ect) and aircraft design but the training systems employed to teach pilots belongs to the previous century. The emergence of these new modern aircraft(and for that matter any aircraft,who dosnt want to be a better pilot) requires the same advances in teaching methods and the only way to achieve this on the scale that the recreational aviation requires is with cutting edge technology and 21st century teaching methods.

Im not advocating that we reinvent the wheel and use experimental techniques on students but that we look around to see what successful systems are already being utilized by teaching institutions such as university’s to teach their students remotely using the internet ect. If you look at what makes this forum so enjoyable and encourages people to return is the fact that real people are able to interact and express their opinions. In other words its not passive it actually facilitates active learning and knowledge sharing. We need to take this approach with training.

Here are a few sites that may give ideas as to how to accomplish this.

http://ausweb.scu.edu.au/aw2k/papers/a_herran/paper.html

http://www.blackboard.com/products/as/

http://ilecture.uwa.edu.au/

http://www.webct.com/

These are just a few sites that show case systems that could be adapted to the RAAus to train and maintain students that is interactive and not passive like the material we use now for training. Surely Casa would look favorably on the RAAus if we could show them that we are serious about training. Systems like these would help instructors to keep in touch with their student’s progress where ever they are.

Another aspect of training that I know others have talked about is the different learning types and styles that students possess. Currently the system of learning is aimed a type of learning method that might be ok for the technically minded read and accept type of student but that method is not appropriate for every one. We must remember that every one deep down wants to fly and this one dimensional teaching method only acts as a barrier to the growth of recreational flyers.

http://www2.gsu.edu/~dschjb/wwwmbti.html

http://www.problemistics.org/learning/types.styles.html

I have only scraped the surface of this subject but in conclusion what I propose is an internet base interactive training hub that could act as a central gate way to all students, instructors,RAAus and interested parties, ie out side lecturers.

If we implemented a system like this there is no boundary to where or what we could utilize it for. Just a few could be

Guest safety,training,product lectures

Online student exams

Instructor training

Real time student instructor training, lectures.

Access to training programs

Flight simulator access geared to RAAus specific air craft

Product reviews

Advertising

Student learning type and style evaluation.

Flying school info and connecting students to a compatable instructors

RAAus development notices

Relavent web sites links

Ect ect ect

I hope this makes sense to someone

What do you think?

Regards Stephen

Hi All,

Thought I would post a few pics of a my project that I have taken over.

This aircraft is called a Vision, it is designed by Steve Ramm of

American Affordable Aircraft. It is a mouldless 2 place fibre glass

foam sandwich design. The fibre glass surfaces can be made using a

framing teqnique or by vacumm bagging flat panels and just bending them

into shape like constructing a card board box (foldaplane method). I

will use both but the inverted fuse in the picture is produced by

bulding a frame and bending foam into place then glassing outside.

Then next pic is the post cure oven I built to stiffen and bring the resin to its full strength. 70 degs celcius for 4 hours.

This is a picture of the fusalage flipped and being prepared for glassing of inside fusalage.

3000 to 5000 hours later it should look like this. To be continued!!!