Bluehawktechnologies

Hi all, I posted this in the classifieds but this seems more at home with microlights

We received a Delta Sailplane Nomad aircraft and it does not have a motor or prop, the original motor was said to be a 10HP min to 25HP motor.

So we need a Rotax 277 or similar engine/pusher prop.

the plane is the same model as in this video

any help would be great.

The guys out there have been standing up for what they believe. That's the reason all the Aero Club trophies have been smashed (some were over 70 years old), the Aero Club's building sold and now is soon to be demolished, peoples tyres slashed, numerous windows smashed etc.

 

The Club in its various incarnations has been fighting this for 18 years without rest and the fight has become very nasty at times. However when people's lives begin to feel threatened I can understand them slowly and quietly climbing down from the tree.

 

This isn't some Clint Eastwood movie it's the real deal. All the yelling and carry on that went on the other night at the Council meeting led the Councillors to make statements to the media that seemed to state that none of the people using the Airport deserved such a facility due to their behaviour.

 

I used to believe that goodness and doing what was right would overcome all obstacles. Abosulte load of baloney that whole view of the world proved to be.:black_eye:

It seems to me that certain Councilors may have received kickbacks to "support" the sale, This is no new thing as the Wollongong Council shows.

I know someone suggested a new airfield devoid of council and the trouble makers.

I am not saying this is the best course but call this Plan C

I know that you guys have been protesting to try and get sense and logic into the bureaucrats brains

but I do not know if you guys have read the Restrictions as to Usage in Information Memorandum package sent by Colliers International.

Covernants

The Title will be encumbered by a restrictive covernant so that the airport may not be used for any purpose other than an airport

 

The proposed Section 88D Instrument establishing these covernants is attached to sale

 

Transfer Deed

 

Under the terms of the Transfer Deed, Council may not,without the written consent of the Federal Government,close the airport or sell,lease or otherwise dispose of the airport or any part of it. The attention of the prospective purchasers is drawn to the specific restrictions imposed by the way of covenants in this regard and to the specific terms of the transfer deed.

The information I quoted above is in section 7 (page 12)

If people can not gain access to this I can scan it and email it.

did the pilot of the aircraft who had the incident with the car airsside note the vehicles details and file an incident report as requirered.

I'm utterly depressed by the state of affairs in this town. After all the yelling and screaming from the public at the utter lies the presenter was dribbling forth the Council seem to have been hearing only dollars falling.They will sell if he offers them the right price. As a well-known Goulburnite said on the way out "I wouldn't believe that man if he told me his middle name".

 

Bluehawk you may know a little more in this area? The guy wanting to buy had a tall New Caledonian standing by his left who wants to bring an "anti-terrorism and security centre" to Goulburn.

 

Not once in the presentation did he mention anything about the "International Transport Hub" that he talked to the Canberra Times about either.

 

It appears our only solution is to start again. Just as the founding members of our club first began constructing the Goulburn airport in 1928 it seems that 80 years on we must begin to do the same if we wish to fly in this region in the future.

I hope I am wrong in this regard but my gut says otherwise.

My firm only wanted to use Goulburn Airport for Storage and Training, hence why we do not wish to interfere with current air operations.

But with the Unrealistic price tag and the lack of transparency of the council on the matter we decided to search other areas.

It is a shame that greedy,short sighted and self obsessed politicians can not listen to the public,There is an old saying "People should not fear Governments, Governments should fear its people! "

I really hope no air operations will be affected by this group although it seems you have had a taste of whats to come (referring to the vehicle incident on the airside of the fence) .

It appears our only solution is to start again. Just as the founding members of our club first began constructing the Goulburn airport in 1928 it seems that 80 years on we must begin to do the same if we wish to fly in this region in the future.

Well the saga continues.The current Developer who is looking to buy the airport is making a presentation to Council tonight. It's a public meeting so we're encouraging as many people as possible to attend. We feel it's a good chance to show the new Council that the community actually cares about what happens out there.

 

We have had several run-ins with the Current proponent including one of our pilots being forced to move out of the way of his Landcruiser as it hurtled towards him along the grass runway. When our CFI approached the vehicle a little later to tell them to get off the runways/taxiways he drove toward her until she had to move and carried on with the windows rolled up.

 

This is not the kind of person we want in charge!

 

If anyone is free and would like to attend the meeting is at 5:30pm in Council chambers. It is a public meeting. The presentations should be over by 6pm I would imagine so it shouldn't take up much time. Some of us are taking small protest signs so if you would like to join us in doing this please feel free. I think it's time we started making a little noise. Tony Lamarra will be talking to Council also to implore them to retain the airport on behalf of all users.

 

Hope to see some of you there. Sorry about the late notice.

( aircraft giving way to a car, its an airport not a road way:censored: )

Has that developer brought the airport or is in the process of considering?

Have a look at this - completely inn appropriateYouTube - Goulburn Airport. Drag, Drift & Burnouts

 

AND Council allow this :hittinghead:

We pulled out of the auction with Colliers because of the following:

* Lack of solid title to the land

(no one could give us a solid answer to the questions about the title)

* The over inflated price expectations

( who would pay over $1.5m to have a dept of over $90,000/year )

* they valued the price of land as if it is rural land, issue is you can not do anything with the land other that keep it as an airport.

* The fact no structures were included in the sale

( all you get is the runways,taxiways and the lighting )

* they stated that there was approval for more aircraft hangars

( turned out you still had to pay council for the approvals )

* and all the "you must do" in the contracts

If they were more realistic in price and gave solid answers/ title we would have no issues.

The airfield needs to be better run and to place aviators above administrators.

Simple math

the more pilots = more planes, more planes = more tourists, more tourists = more money for local businesses

My company wished to setup one of our facilities at Goulburn Airport ( we are currently setting up three within NSW) and our aim was not to interfere with current air activity but encourage it to grow.

I do not know if it sold within the auction or not.

PS. I have not posted for a little while because I forgot the password

Hey this all sounds like fun! :thumb_up:I have spoken to various people in the AUF, RAAus and sure enough, if you can keep it under 300kg, you can just about do anything.

Hi Ozzie, yeah I flew Fernando's Lazair quad, a little scarey, but I'm fairly sure it was all quite legal. i_dunno

 

I had even had thoughts of going sort of the same way using the Lazair style wing structure to build a scaled Me-323 Gigant using SIX Kirby or Mccullough two strokes (been keeping this quiet so no one would beat me, but I'll never have the time anyway...)

 

The fun thing flying a multi like Fernado's was using the four Tiny-Taks to sync all the engines.

 

ps, Freewheeling props DO cause drag. :ah_oh:

 

C'mon BlueHawk, where's some piccies? :pics:

 

Arthur.

I am still looking at the other motors you guys talked of though and so far the performance is 100% better than the Victa.

My engine mounts also seems to have issues (development of cracks have turned up after tests)It could be because of the stiff wings so now I have to inspect the wing internals for damage as well.

The experiment continues.

Hello, I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can get the power without the weight of the victas.Less weight, lighter airframe.

Not having the weight of outboard engines would give you less stress on the wings wouldn't it?

 

Can't see free wheeling props adding drag.

 

I recon you could use 2 engines with more power than the victas and at a lot less than half the weight.

 

The 3W engines are not cheap but that was just an example of whats around.

 

Ofcourse if you really want those mower motors to fly then by all means go for it !!!!:big_grin:

 

Regards,

 

R J Mitchell

I have looked at the Yamaha 250cc motors as well as these would fit my mounts but my issue was speed wise as these would make it hard to keep speed down.

I made a contra rotation blade setup on one of my test frames to see what it does so If I find I need more power I can bolt the assembly on (this takes 2 hours/engine)

and this would give me to add four more if needed (over kill I think plus it will look odd)

My main issue is finding propellers as I want straight props not these fancy three bladed ones.

Currently I am using a wooden prop and this is great but the gentleman whom made it for my has now passed away:sad:

Hello,Alot of RC aircraft engines run at around 40/1 oil/fuel ratio, so I think 25/1 maybe conservative. They also rev up to 10 000 rpm. I don't have any knowledge of the victa engines however.

4 hp from 160cc looks to be extremely poor. You can buy cheap chinese RC engines for $200 that are 50cc and produce 4hp. weighing 1.5kg. I'm definately not saying you should use these but just showing an example.

 

A 3W210 (210cc, german made, high quality, twin spark, 4.8kg,31x12 3blade prop) makes 21hp.

 

Have you thought of having inboard engines only with free wheeling props outboard? What about larger engines inboard and smaller out? You could have the same dia props with different pitch.

 

Regards,

 

R J Mitchell

I do not want a speed demon as the airframe is not designed for it and that is not my purpose for building it.

I know four 160cc can safely lift 250kg without a large wing area.

I have retractable landing gear to lower drag , a enclosed fuselage , adaptable engine mounts for various engines and I have a large wing area also.

The A 3W210 Engine you spoke of I will have to price them to see if they would be in my budget.

I chose the victa 160cc because we have plenty sitting around.

Have you thought of having inboard engines only with free wheeling props outboard? What about larger engines inboard and smaller out? You could have the same dia props with different pitch.

This is just for something for me to bounce from home to work for fun and for weekends.

well the other way is to add it to our foreign License. There is not restrictions on this.

Then CASA can not legally interfere with its internal politics.

But I did want to have this toy registered as a ultralight in Australia because it is being built here.

The old saying "There is many ways to skin a rabbit" is so true.

This sounds like a interesting project some comments that come to mind are, you and the aircraft will have to be very light and low drag to fly on 16 HP. Under ANO 9510 you can have multi engines. I am not aware of any requirement for a multi engine endorsement. More oil mix in the fuel will decrease your safety rather than increase it. Best to use the highest quality oil.Can I ask how far along is progress with the project?

 

Regards Richard.

The airframe itself is exactly like the real thing just smaller (other than the canopy of course)

I only added more oil to prevent lockup during the tests. but I have to run some tests with the standard mix as well.

I use the same oil that racing go carts use by Castrol.

I have completed the one piece wing and 54% of the fuselage.all the framework is completed I just have the long process of fitting equipment.

The landing gear retracts to help minimize drag as well. (it is the old windup type similar design to a threaded car jack with gas assistance)

My aim is to keep the whole aircraft total under the 350Kg mark.

I may have to take up jogging to hit that mark.

try finding some old scouts they have what you are looking for, some have robyn 250 with belt drives. the real early ones have a chain drive not very reliable as the chain gets red hot, breaks, flys off and starts grass fires. The belt drive is actually three? narrow belts. they work fine. I will dig around my old files tonight and see what i can find. Ron Wheeler is still around maybe he can help.as i already fly a twin engine ultralight maybe i can get my multi ticket:big_grin:

 

i have thought along the lines of a scale single seat mitchell bomber powered by small radials. but wrong country for that:confused:

 

ozzie

I have made a few scaled replicas in my company these have been

P38 Lightning (we used the German 3 cylinder engines for that)

P40 Kitty Hawk ( chev full alloy V8 )

P51 Mustang ( Chev V8 full alloy )

Spitfire ( we cheated with this as we used a clancy skybaby engine )

and now this project.

If you wish the web site for the German company whom sells the engines I will find the address for you.

ozzie what kind of ultralight do you fly? it sounds fun

I've seen plenty of Victas flying and once they are set up right with a pumper carby they are as reliable as any other two stroke. A belt redive is recommended not only for the extra thrust but the crank has a hard time with direct thrust loads. some turn the engine around and bolt the prop on the flywheel end, similar to my little pioneers on the lazair. there are plenty of aftermarket ign kits to make them even more reliable. early versions seem to produce the best power.I like the sound of what you are building even if you will have to find your own 'area 41' to fly it in. is it a scale B17?

 

Ozzie

I chose to make this one because of its size and no one else has made an ultralight version

I will have to look at your belt redrive idea as I am not sure about those types

The sizes are

Wing span = 9600

Fuselage length = 5600

Fuselage width = 600

Fuselage height = 800

So it is a cozy fuselage indeed,I chose the early B24 due to its perspex nose (this will help landings),Fuselage height and high wings.

Just a point on oil mix BlueHT.. if you put in an extra 10% oil, your mixture will be 10% leaner and this may cause lean running... I.E. hotter motor than necessary...I used to think that more oil made it safer until a bike mechanic pointed out a couple of things to me..

Just use a good quality oil :thumb_up:

 

I'm not a mechanic so stand to be corrected....

If I use the 25:1 mix straight I am worried about under lubrication of my barrels.

I looked at CASAs rules about ultralights and they did not seem to suggest a limit to the number of engines

The Cri Cri (french microlight) has two engines

Flyer

I will take a good look at those motors and props you were talking about.

I am currently using a wooden prop for tests,

facthunter

oil wise it is a 2 stroke motor normal operations is 25:1 but I add 10%more oil in the mix for safety.

I do not mind the cast barrel and with in behind the prop cooling does not seem an issue.

My clearance for the engine barrel is three inches each side

I can not use a chainsaw motor because of the aircraft size and its weight (it would not get airborne)

I have gone overboard with its structural strength to increase the odds of survivability if it does need to engage in a hard landing,belly landing or collision at least I will be able to walk away

I was under the impression that ultralights or RA-Aus machines were restricted to 1 engine.Would need to be VH reg for multi engine... and you would need to hold a multi engine endorsement as well....:thumb_up:

We operate Military Class aircraft and Ex Military Aircraft.

So that side I am covered and as for VH registration I am not 100% sure.

I have seen CASAs requirements for strength of the airframe/wings and so far we have surpassed them,We have made many scaled aircraft for fun in our South African office and being ex military we tend to go troppo in regards to making it strong.

Our test wings we piled 950 Kg in the ends of each wing and it still did not bend.

The airframe is made of Aviation Aluminum,Foam,Fabric (control surfaces) and Perspex

The foam is very handy for the leading edges and being fire retardant it is also handy for around the fuel tanks.

Most aircraft have one or two wing spars This project operates two box spares and a tubular spar.

the aircraft would not use a single 160cc but four 160cc engines.

Jabiru/Rotax/Lycoming would not scale well into the airframe.

as for the TCM I will have to look that motor up. I have a Lycoming 350Hp Blue motor sitting in my Garage as a spare for one of the company's aircraft but I am not going to waste such a motor.

This is a scaled four engine WW2 bomber with a wing span under 10m.

Currently it is a cozy 600mm wide and 5600mm long and weight all up is under 300Kg.

I have heard of the accidents the single engined aircraft had and took note what motors/carbys were used.

These engines are third generation not first/second generation and the Carby systems are different.

This is being built as a fun little toy for weekends play.

Greetings everyone This may sound very odd.

I have four Victa 160cc mower engines (old type) that produce 4 horsepower per unit.

I was intending to use them on a design I have been working on,But I have a few little questions though.

* What size prop can these safely use I have been looking a 28 inches.

* Would they need a ratio box or is Direct ok

The ultralight would have four of these motors mounted on the wings.

This is just as a side project to keep me busy

Has anyone else used or considered to use these engines?

In my engine tests I got 4 horsepower from each motor and a fuel rate of 500mL/Hour/engine at running speed.

Well any help would be good

Thanks

It is funny that these people are now complaining about an Airfield that was there first.

These people deliberately buy near Airfield because it is cheap then once there they attempt to remove the Airfield for self gain.

I have a simple solution to their issues and it is

"If you don't like it LEAVE !" plan and simple.

It is not like the Airfield sneaked up and went SURPIZE !

these people need to realize they are not fooling the educated people with their crocodile tears and sob stories.

Fact is a Fact the Airfield was there first

Yes Bluehawk I was quoting him. It was the only time I met Joe - I was on a charter and he was having a break with a student on a Nav, we were in the kitchen at Bathurst Aero Club. His simple statement made an impact that remains with me today.No, in no way was I inferring that he would have any part in the sort of shenannigans being discussed here.

I meant to ask were you quoting Joe Gostner of Camden Airport.

I know Joe Gostner personally thats all although it has been a while.

IFR DuckTen out of Ten :thumb_up:

 

Ahlocks is (obliquely) correct, there is a long history.

 

The "perp" has been fronted (not by me) and denied it, his CFI also and ditto.

 

Low level (300') circuits at 7am over town (sparking complaints in surrounding suburbs) and night circuits in a [ultralight] for "a bit of a giggle" are, in my experience, not to be taken lightly or dismissed with "oh he knows what he's doing".

 

Joe Gostner once said to me (same topic, different bloke in question) "If he knew what he was doing, HE WOULDN'T BE DOING IT."

 

Comes back to what we were saying before in the "IDIOTS" thread about creating a safety culture and an EXPECTATION within the organisation that we all do the right thing.

 

Looks like the Nappy stays in the cupboard for a couple of weeks :pig:

Thank you for your positive remarks and assistance.

68volksy I have sent you and email along with my phone number as well.

The email to teraya.miller bounced so I am not sure what has occurred there.

I am not sure if Ray Ekinci is still at Goulburn Airport

If he does I would be interested in what he thinks is the condition of the sealed runways for Jets and medium sized aircraft.

As for your ideas of maintaining the airfield I have to agree these are great ideas

If I can gain enough support from locals and operators alike,we can secure the future of the airfield and operations alike.

If you know of any other persons I should talk to just say

Hi everyone

I am Paolo Von Hindmarsh,

I tend to fly helicopters and fixed wing aircraft (not including grasshoppers they scare me !)

well I have no clue what else to say!

Greetings

I noticed your forum when I was searching for information about Goulburn Airport.

As you are aware the airfield is currently offered for sale.

I am one company looking into purchasing the airfield to use as a "home base".

The information I have recieved from Ken Wheeldon is.

*The expenditure for them to maintain the airfield costs approximately $70,000 per year and approximately $30,000 income received per year does this sound about right ?

*That capital works are required in the near future in regards to

a.Reseal bitumen runway and taxiways

b.Drainage improvements to the main car park area and access road

Now I am interested in the airfield for use by my company but I have no intention to deny operators the use of the airfield.

If my company is successful in our tender I would like to try and get all operators of the airfield to have a meeting to see how we could keep costs down.

I am not sure if I am allowed to post a link to my company's website as to show you what kind of business I run.

http://www.bluehawktechnologies.com/privatemilitary/

Regards

Paolo Von Hindmarsh