Flying Kiwi

Hi,

Question, you've picked up flight following from Brisbane Centre and your planning to transit the restricted area west of Williamstown. When time comes to seek clearance do you call Brisbane as they have already provided a squawk to get clearance or call up Willy Delivery as you would normally do.

Also on a side note if planning above 10,000ft and depending on when the aircraft was registered a Mode S transponder may be required.

From the Airservices website

CASA regulations have already come into force requiring all VFR aircraft placed on the Australian register after 6 February 2014; operating in Class A, B, C, E or in Class G above 10,000 feet and aircraft installing a new transponders after 6 February 2014, to have installed a Mode S transponder (with Flight ID input) which is ADS-B capable. If fitting a new transponder Post 6 February 14 a mode S transponder is required unless the aircraft is restricted to operations Below A100 in Class G and Class D. In such areas a mode C transponder is acceptable.

I'm confused now (must be one of those Aldo is referring too...). I understand a flightplan as something I compile and then use inflight. A Flight Notification is what I submit using NAIPS, with departure point & time, routing, alternate, cruising level and Comm/SSR status etc, which, I've always understood is what I need to do to get flight following or better access to CTA without upsetting ATC by not having "a plan in the system" and then them needing to get the details via radio.If that is not the case, what is the difference between a 'plan' and a 'notification' so far as ATC are concerned?

From the Airservices website go to Flight Briefing - Pilot and Airside Safety - Working with Air Traffic control.

In this situation the usual means of establishing identification is to instruct the pilot to squawk a discrete (individual) code. To obtain a discrete code, it is normally necessary for a flight plan (flight notification) to exist within the ATC Eurocat system. However, inactive VFR plans are not always displayed to controllers, so the first question you are likely to get from a controller is “have you got a flight plan in the system?”

Some great info on how the system works and I see Nathan has clarified things as well

Wht concerns me in this discussion is the number of people who don't appear to understand the basics of flight planning and navigation, most have presumably got their cross country endorsements yet don't understand the flight plan system and from lots of other posts the number of people who are not able to read the weather is appalling. And let's not start on the radio work and position reporting.Who is conducting and signing off on the training and testing.

Don't think you are on the right track there with your comment, as most RAAus operate in G Class only; as you would known there is no requirement to file anything. So from your comments this doesn't mean that the person doesn't know how to get from A to B and plan a flight and navigate correctly. Again most wouldn't even request flight following etc, however for those that want to understand the system and have knowledge of what needs to be done when they want to utilise this service I say is a good thing, isn't this what this forum 'ATC question' about. Based on your comment we should know it all prior to getting signed off. Isn't a good pilot always learning, can you please navigate me to your best seller book 'I know everything on flying' as I'm already lost......

I'll leave shags to get the regulatory answer however from my point of view:I won't see your flight notification, but sartimes will. If you ring up with a flight plan amendment and what you mean is a notification then I have to pass it to sartimes as I don't have visibility or capability to change it. If you want access to CTA you should do a plan, a notification isn't enough and we will have to make one out of the blue if you haven't filed one and just call up = delays.

 

Flight following also requires a plan not a notification (usually, we can put a temporary tag on but usually we would make a plan up so it sticks to your code).

 

Planning as the last four digits is good, trust me when I say we won't find your plan if you file it as 241234, 191234, R1234 or jab1234 for example(unless you spell it out). 99% of controllers wouldn't know the difference between a foxbat or a jabiru, let alone that regos start with 19 or 24. Last couple of weeks I have given flight following to a jabiru and he planned as 4473(or numbers to that effect.)

 

Operationally no one could care less honestly if you use grouped numbers or say each number separately. As per AIP grouped is preferred but we have bigger fish to fry than someone that refuses to group numbers (we speak in grouped numbers all day every day, it's no less safe or harder to understand then individual numbers trust me.)

Are we not filing a 'Flight Notification' rather than a flight plan, if the need arises for flight following or airspace clearance it helps speed up the process for the controller if a notification is in the system on what your intentions are, rather than ATC having to take all the details down?

The following is from the Airservices site 'It is emphasised that the flight notification form is NOT a flight plan. What you do in flight has not changed, and the requirements for flights under the IFR and VFR have not changed (see AIP and ERSA). It is recommended that pilots consult AIP ENR 1.10 for the requirements on flight planning and flight notification'.

The 2xxx and 6xxx ranges are assigned to HGFA for trikes registered with themCheers

 

John

And being a Kiwi that's one to many 6's for me.

Hi

When you watch the Airservices YouTube video for lodging a SAR time he says for RAAus in Aircraft ID use only the last 4 digits of rego.

So I'll make the assumption that when filing a flight plan the same would apply using the last 4 digits for the Aircraft ID

Also correct me if I'm wrong but you don't need Mode S to enter controlled airspace, Mode C is still fine which won't have a hex code

Hi Guys

What would be the realistic chance of getting Class C clearance say direct Lismore to Sunshine Coast at A085, so basically over the top of Brisbane.

Not a hope in hell? Don't even try just take the coastal route??

And going the other way into Bankstown would they entertain something like A065 following the VFR route to Prospect or just to much effort.

Cheers

Hi Guys,

For a departure out of Tamworth, when you request taxi clearance are you also requesting airways clearance even though they also control C Class, would they know that from your flight plan that you will be climbing into C Class??

Cheers

Hi Guys,

You've got flight following, and nearing you destination ATC say ABC no reported IFR traffic for you're descent (or something along those lines) is it a case of acknowledging with you callsign or is there more to it in relation to a read back?

Cheers

I would normally open with Tamworth Tower ABC Inbound Details, or Transit Details. Just gives them a chance to grab a strip and get ready for the information. If you just blurt everything out and they are on a coord line or something your just going to have to say it all again anyway

When you say inbound details, how much detail are you providing in that initial call.

I was thinking just calling with Callsign and letting them come back, as you say don't want to overload when I would have to repeat.

Cheers

Hi guys,

Question regarding your inbound call into Class D.

Would you do an initial cold call e.g.

Tamworth Tower - Alpha Bravo Charlie, Cessna 172, Request.

Then wait for their reply, or would you just blurt your intentions out being position, altitude, information received, inbound, request clearance in the first instance.

Cheers

Hi,

Sport Pilot (June 15) has an article on owning your own which gives an idea of the breakdown costs to be included.

Classic on the driving, would you not be driving your car out to the airfield regardless if you own or hire??

We have done the trip a few times to Armidale whereby we head from Port to the Bellbrook VFA and then follow the valley up, the hop over the tiger country would be all of 15nm and if the noise stopped it's a U turn and glide back down in the valley. Touch wood, todate that hasn't happened.

Or head off at first light and go via Coffs whilst it is G Class before the tower opens or do the unthinkable and dial up Brissy Centre and request clearance through C Class, ha ha.

I think there are several different ways to do ra Aus flight plans, although I would be very careful about putting the aircraft type and last 4 numbers of the rego in the aircraft ID, as you may get really unlucky and confuse it with some of the airline callsigns. The way I do it is put the last 4 digits of the rego in the aircraft ID, ie 6669, then in the rego field I would put 24-6669, and in field 18 of the flight plan I would put RMK/ RT CALLSIGN CT 6669. The many different ways of planning ra Aus flights can make it tricky to find them, but I think our flight data coordinators can find them by searching departure/destination and then they will send them to us.

Hi Kiwi,If you have multiple legs in the system, let the controller know what leg your on, for example say Tamworth for Armidale so we know which flight plan to use. It will have a different squawk code to the previous leg, as that's the way Eurocat code assignment works. In fact, ideally before you land on your previous leg, let the controller know that you will be requesting a flight following for your next leg so we can get the plan. In most cases VFR plans aren't automatically sent to the controller, so it may take us a few minutes to get them.

 

When changing frequency just say Brisbane centre, ABC maintaining 4500. Don't tell us the frequency, we can see that on our equipment, we only care about what your level is.

Also one other question with RAAus aircraft and ATC picking up the lodged flight plan.

My call sign is CT6669 so when lodging should I put the correct aircraft ID and Rego being 24-6669 the last couple of times I've lodged with CT6669 in both the aircraft ID and Rego and didn't seem to have had a problem or does that cause confusion when trying to find the plan?

Cheers

Flying Kiwi

A safer crossing of the range (less to no Tiger Country) might be to go up over Casino to the Gold Coast and fly through Cunningham's Gap (near Boonah). The Gap can be a bit tricky for winds and low cloud but on a good day it is a doddle compared with the crossing you are planning.I'm keen to get to Longreach myself and get THAT photo.

 

Don

A safer crossing of the range (less to no Tiger Country) might be to go up over Casino to the Gold Coast and fly through Cunningham's Gap (near Boonah). The Gap can be a bit tricky for winds and low cloud but on a good day it is a doddle compared with the crossing you are planning.I'm keen to get to Longreach myself and get THAT photo.

 

Don

Looking forward to the trip hopefully the weather plays it part.

Hi Guys,

A couple of questions regarding flight following.

1. You have lodged a flight notification that has multiply stages due to landing for refulling etc. You're receiving flight following, what is the procedure of reestablishing flight following once you have say refulled. Do you call up and request flight following again or confirm that you are airborne again with the squawk that was assigned.

2. When you are changing area frequency with BNE Centre and they say contact 125.1 once dailed in what is the correct phrasing is it "Alpha Bravo Charlie withyou on 125.1"

Would appreciate your feedback

Cheers

CT goes along at about 110 with 120l on board at roughly 18l per hour, the other person is a pilot also. We have around 200hrs each.

Have done the trip to Armidale a few times most recently being yesterday. From Port we head to Bellbrook just north west of Kempsey then follow the valley up with a short hop over the tiger country. So not concerned about getting over the range.

Hear what your saying about less landmarks, we are planning a couple of stops along the way being Moree and Charleville but will be planning to overfly Armidale, Inverell, St George and Blackall

Whilst we have a Garmin 795 on board and OzRunways we will definitely have the paper plotted out and ready.

Appreciate your comments.

Flying Kiwi

Flight Design CTLS

Hi all,

Looking at planning a trip early August from YPMQ to YLRE, of course the main reason being to check out the QANTAS Museum.

Any tips would be appreciated, we will be flying a LSA

Cheers