Nic Waugh

$300,000 is expensive based on the average median. That's not to say that there's not plenty of people who play in that area.

The Nigerian Airforce use 60 Vans RV-6s that they assembled themselves from kits for trainers, and the Taiwanese Airforce used Palmany PL-1s, also 60 in number, and that they also built themselves, in the 1970s.

 

Smart thinking and huge moneys saved as far I'm concerned.

correct me if I'm wrong please Nick but the prime is +4 -2, which would not make it ideal as an airforce trainer.

Correct. The Prime is not the aircraft for military training. That's the BK200. it has been sold as a military trainer already. The Prime is designed as a high end recreational. 

bexrbetter, you are absolutely right. I was far too loose with my words. The point I was ineptly trying to make was that there will be more and more aircraft like the prime coming onto the market.  That as each new model is released, it will be better and faster and have more options than the model it replaces. But I do hope that there are more lower priced, be that slower, be that less optioned NEW aircraft types coming into the sector. Hope that clarifies my comments and thank you for calling me on it. I'm new, I'm trying and I will make mistakes and put my hand up when I do. 

Negative Yenn, The tarragon is a different aircraft. there are 3 or 4 aircraft that are coming out that look similar to the Blackshape. Possibly the Millennium Master design was purchased by more than one company. If you check the finish of the Blackshape, specifically inside the cockpit, compared to the others, there is a good deal of difference. Having said that, these other aircraft may well be quite nice. But they are not in AU yet and don't have a type certificate through RA Aus nor a permit to fly. So we are it for this sort of recreational tandem for the time being. Blackshape's operation is substantial and it is backed by a large company (Angelo Investments). Something else to consider when looking at similar aircraft is how long they will be around for. Blackshape has new aircraft in manufacture (Gabrielle BK160) plus a derivative for air force trainers (BK200), so they are not going anywhere. PLA Aviation is backed by Precision Light and Air, a 20 year old instrument company and we are not going anywhere either. 

Thanks for the comments Hongie. I would clearly agree. I have said recently to RA Aus that there will be no recreational aircraft manufacturer looking to make their next aircraft slower or with less technology. This is the way things are going to be. 

I am new to social media (47 year old social media virgin with just linkedin) and its looked after by our marketing lady Zulay. but when I do see comments on our facebook and Instagram (and just found your forum last night) I am amazed by how blunt people are. Nasty even. Its not cricket. All we did was buy import, fly and try and sell something new.  If I'd written something or said something offensive, I'd understand. But I'm thick skinned and as long as your group lets me defend myself (which you are), its all good.

$300,000 for an aircraft is expensive for some, but not all. I'm an instrument tech and I bought one to get me to site and home faster. It was pretty simple maths for me to work out the time I spend going to large centres and then out to the remote places where I work. We have had about 25 solid enquiries and every one of them, bar the Qantas /Cathay pilots who just want one for a bit of fun, have the same or similar application for the aircraft to me. A sales guy from country NSW radio. A farmer who has two properties 900km apart.   I'm not expecting to see any sold at the flight schools or running friends around the bay on Sundays. 

Have a great flight. more power to your right arm. 

No new aircraft sales yet. We have sold one of the demo units to make room for the Gabrielle. Make room in our cheque book that is. plenty of space in our hangar. 

Prime ACS_2017 05 18.xlsxBexrbetter, 

sure will. 

see attached the price list for the prime. you will see the full calculation of the price. We get 20% of the cost price as our agents fee. so on a 300,000 aircraft, we get $60,000. 2-3 aircraft a year (which is what is expected) and you will see the project does not make money when you include hangar cost (32,000 per year), insurance ($15,000 per aircraft). labour, advertising blah blah. 

Prime ACS_2017 05 18.xlsx

Prime ACS_2017 05 18.xlsx

I watched the segment too, and thought... hmmm... I wonder how many other agents for the likes of Evector or Bristel are watching and wondering how they can get their, more affordable RAA aircraft on prime time.I honestly don't get it. It was pure advertising and contained no valuable information at all - and in fact - blatantly lied! The story made out that this aircraft is the only one in it's class at this price tag, and that, is misleading at best.

As an unpaid story, we don't get a say in what questions the reporters ask. We also don't get a say in how they edit the footage and what line they take. As an example, one article had me saying that "flying a Blackshape is the closest thing to flying a fighter jet" This is clearly not true. a) you can fly a fighter jet. b) you can fly umpteen aircraft faster, but the next thing out of my mouth (not broadcast) was "in the recreational category" and right now, in Australia at least, I'm pretty sure that's true. 

Good point! Wouldn't it be great to see how much he paid the network to get that story on air? Then it's not really news is it! More a paid advert.

Yeah the blackshape was previously the Millennium Master, Its an LSA specced machine and could be RA-Aus registered, but with an MTOW of 472Kg, its a little light on for most of us. I would still love to fly one, but the second seat would really only be useful for a bag.

This is just the sort of advertisement for Recreational Aviation that we DO NOT need. Feeds the idea in the minds of the general populace that Recreational Aviators have money to burn, to buy toys that blast across the countryside.

As much as I never want to elevate (little aviation-related pun, there..) the profile of Pauline Hanson, her use of a J230 as a 'business tool' I think did us a lot of good - though we haven't, as a community, capitalised on it. She has used it very effectively as a 'tool' to meet her 'mission' requirements - and as a 'tool', a J230 is around the cost of a top-of-the line Landcruiser.

 

Very few people consider even a top-of-the-line Landcruiser to be no more worthy of respect than any 'rich kid's toy'. It's a bloody 'tool' (except in Toorak, or Newport) - albeit a rather well-equipped and finished one. But it's no Bentley Bentayaga...

 

In my (rapidly diminishing, I have to admit) dream of the position Recreational Aviators might occupy in the minds of the general community, we would be considered as intelligent, serious, socially-conscious NORMAL members of our community who quietly get about our aerial activities with minimal intrusion on the general community. Who as a national group, bring in to islotaded communities not just tourism, but in fraught times, are a front-line force of volunteers for search-and-rescue operations and medical emergency support (which of course happens, but do we get any good publicity from it?).

 

Things such as the Blackshape Prime - a total, utter wank of an aircraft - are, to me, akin to Jetskis. Interesting, that on their website (Blackshape Prime - PLA Aviation Services) you get no detailed performance figures, just a VNe ( if you actually look at it) of 164 kts. No stall speed, no t/o or landing roll.. Just a lot of PR BS with fancy photographs, frankly.

 

Anybody who buys one of these, is not likely to be an educated Recreational aviator.

 

And - they are dead likely to be really pissed off when a Wittman Tailwind blasts past them..

Can anyone provide a ball park figure on the "factory cost" and how much mark up is on it??? What is the typical amount a aussie agent / dealer selling the toy here also make.Forget all the options that can be loaded on.

I for one am impressed he got his wares on National prime TV, quite a feat and presumably a relative/mate or better still, someone high up in Channel 7 is an aviator.

Isn't there another forum to talk about traffic rules, cars & trucks?I just watched a channel 7 clip re the Blackshape that someone shared on Facebook.

 

I am always so impressed by RAAus pilots that wear epaulettes. Maybe they also work as bus drivers?

A guy from Tyabb on Sunrise this morning promoting the Blackshape Prime for "personal commuting". Said contact RAA to get a licence with 30 hours training. Kochie's comment - that's less than a car. No mention of the cost or other things involved like restrictions, radio, medical etc. And since when have RPC pilots been able to fly retractables?[ATTACH]36406.IPB[/ATTACH]

We are all driving under legislation called the Australian Road Rules. This is a body of legislation dealing with the use of motor vehicles on public roads and road related areas. The content of the legislation was agreed to by representatives of each State and Territory so that everyone across the continent would operate in the same way. Each State, however, maintained its sovereignty over the Law in its domain, so that each State was permitted to add minor things to it.Australian Road Rules

 

The Australian Road Rules were implemented in 1999 and have been regularly updated since then. Each state and territory adopts the Australian Road Rules in its own legislation. With minor exceptions, the Australian Road Rules are applied consistently in each state and territory.

 

While Rule 126 might seem to apply to the incident involving the truck, you should review the tape and listen to the sound of the engine of the truck. The truck driver was backing off well before the car propped. You also have to apply the "reasonable person" rule. Watch the tape an imagine yourself driving as you normally do. Wouldn't it be your reasonable expectation that with the left lane clear of traffic are far as can be seen, the car would continue on in the left lane?

 

As I said, the truck driver was travelling where he should have been, at what seems to be a reasonable speed for the conditions when the car driver created an unsafe situation which the truck driver could not avoid by the employment of a safe action. If I was the investigating Constable, I'd have no hesitation in reporting the driver of the car for 'Negligent Driving", ie driving in a way that is unsafe for other persons using the road at that time. And I'd subpoena the camcorder tape as prima facie evidence.

 

One might think that the Law is black and white, but it is open to the defence of exception.

Hi allI’m new on the forum and curious if a Blackshape Prime has been sold to a private owner in Australia, yet?

 

Is so may I have your impressions please,

 

Cheers.