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Brisbane: Fast track or Standard Airline Transport Pilot Licence


Guest DCNeville
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Guest DCNeville

I obtained my PPL shortly after finishing a Math/Physics degree at university.

 

Now I have a few dollars I am contemplating becoming a Professional Pilot.

 

Aside from deciding what part of the sky I can feasibly to claim as my own, I am trying to figure our my training options.

 

I see several different tracks:

 

1. Enrol at an establish flying school full time for 12-18 months.

 

2. Enrol at an established "Fast Track" school and

 

a. CPL 18 weeks the Multi-Engine/Instrument at 22 weeks.

 

b. and full jet at 28 weeks.

 

3. Get flight training at a local flying club, maybe a half share in twin engine.

 

4. One of the above, but overseas?

 

5. other ?

 

Over the next few weeks I will be doing the ground work for this career change. I will contact the local clubs and talk to their instructors in the Brisbane QLD area. But any further pointers and hints would be greatly appreciated.

 

Please advice.

 

Regards

 

DCN

 

 

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Guest Elk McPherson

G'day Nev

 

you don't include some really important information.

 

How old are you? What do you hope to achieve? How financially secure are you?

 

To be honest I am not sure I could endorse the "straight through to jet" option unless you are considered to be "independently wealthy". It is a very expensive option with zero guarantees of success.

 

There is no such thing as a "fast track ATPL"... You might have the theory requirements locked away but you need to do the hours, and from memory it is 1500 hours. It took me about 4 years of full-time flying to lock it all away.

 

I would also counsel against simply buying an aircraft and just racking up hours. The hours specified for the ATPL are not simply about time spent in an aeroplane, but time spent in the real, commercial, operational world making some really hard decisions under real commercial pressure. You can't short cut that experience and you can't buy it.

 

The big schools will be able to tell you more about the training they can offer in the 200 hours to your Commercial. Ensure that you will be flying with senior instructors!

 

Good Luck.

 

Elk MacPherson

 

CFI of a PPL/CPL school

 

 

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you are limited here. After talking to pilots and training facilities at Airventure i would select option 4 and head off to the USA.

 

Ozzie

 

 

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Guest DCNeville

Need Help Brisbane: Fast track or Standard Airline Transport Pilot Licence

 

G'day McP

 

How old are you? How financially secure are you?

I graduated BSc 15 years ago, and have been working in IT (with a bit of Science/Engineering development) ever since. In this time I have paid of my mortgage and have saved some extra for a rainy day. (And completed the PPL)

 

What do you hope to achieve?

In the simplest case I'd like to fly domestically, stay based in Brisbane (family), and work with a professional and happy team. Large organisations don't attract me but I probably dont realise what options are realistic and available. If ATPL is a big financial black hole, then I'll stick to my PPL and day job, but if I can fly and pay my bills, then I'd be happy. I enjoy all technical aspects of aviation so far, even law.

 

To be honest I am not sure I could endorse the "straight through to jet" [...] It is a very expensive option with zero guarantees of success.

My preference would be to get the CPL and do something useful. And guarantees are useful things, so I need to know the options, it seems that flying twin turbine has a high is a bit like running a gauntlet. Are there other choices without the sharp edges and dead ends?

 

It took me about 4 years of full-time flying to lock it all away.

How did you do this? It seems a bit chicken and egg. If a bit of cash can be put in the right place to get the right skills, then in some cases it is worth the risk/cost.

 

I would also counsel against [...] racking up hours. [...] You can't short cut that experience and you can't buy it.

As a weekend pilot I don't really know the commercial realities. I can see that the club flight operations has much planning and paper work to do. I believe that a rigorously planned flight around to various locations with full debrief would include many of the aspects of "real live aviation". Esp in conjunction with a senior CFI, and as a PPL willingness to look beyond the horizon.

On the flip side, sitting in a classroom for 52 weeks, and only chalking up 4 hours a week flying (typical "endorsed" Flying School) seems a bit of a barrier to enthusiasm.

 

[...] Ensure that you will be flying with senior instructors!

Agreed

 

Good Luck.

Current plan: I have scheduled 2 weeks off work in order to do some advanced training & a cross-country. It will be a good chance to talk to the CFI, Club Patron and Pilots and nut out the my future choices.

Worst case is I get more hands on planning/flying and get to see some new scenery.

 

Cheers

 

DC

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

For what it's worth, I believe that the demand for airline crew is about to dry up - reportedly, there are already 7000 US professional aircrew on 'furlough' With a contraction in every world economy, and Australia isn't immune, as many think - progressing to airlines might revert to the many years hard slog on outback charter and regional RPT. It's a risky investment, as travel is going to slow right down. Watch the pprune site, and note how many cadet schemes are being terminated.

 

Why not do your CPL, then try instructing in GA, and then convert to RAAus as well? For a professional person in another field of the economy, this would ensure your financial security, yet give you a part-time 'occupation' which can be very satisfying if you have an inclination to teaching. You'll never earn comparably as an instructor - but it's very rewarding. Mature age instructors are definitely in demand.

 

There would be very few, if any, part-time jobs flying a twin or turbine, on charter or for business owners. The cost of attaining your qualifications, (ATPL+MECIR), and then maintaining your currency, would be considerable as a free-lancer.

 

I know several ex scientists who built up their instructing skills over 10's of years, and really enjoy their instructing, especially as they retire from their primary professions.

 

happy days,

 

 

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Guest DCNeville
For what it's worth, I believe that the demand for airline crew is about to dry up - reportedly, there are already 7000 US professional aircrew on 'furlough' With a contraction in every world economy, and Australia isn't immune, as many think - progressing to airlines might revert to the many years hard slog on outback charter and regional RPT. It's a risky investment, as travel is going to slow right down. Watch the pprune site, and note how many cadet schemes are being terminated.

ThanX for the heads up. This matches what I have been finding.

 

Certainly the Aussie dollar is taking a beating at the moment. And googled and got recent (this months) furlough's in the aviation industry, mostly in the US.

 

  1. Troubled Midwest wins new backing
     
     
  2. United Airlines to Put 950 Pilots on Furlough - washingtonpost.com
     
     
  3. Professional Pilot News: United pilots decry furloughs as 'drastic over-reaction'
     
     
  4. Pilots landing on the unemployment line - The Business Journal of Milwaukee:
     
     
  5. Mesa and pilots approve tentative deal - Business News - Starbulletin.com
     
     
  6. ATW Daily News Indian downturn continues as AI offers furloughs, Kingfisher reports loss
     
     
  7. AviationNews.net United Employees Agree To Furloughs
     
     
  8. Troubled Midwest wins new backing
     
     
  9. Pilots flock to United Airlines - Related Stories - ATA SmartBrief
     
     
  10. United Airlines to lay off 414 mechanics - International Herald Tribune
     
     

 

 

 

The following article give a hint as to what live is like as a pilot (The term "meat market" comes to mind):

 

 

 

This week I took some time to speak to the Instructors and Members at my flying club, esp the members plaining to go professional. It looks like a very long road, so... I will aim for my CPL and keep my day job.

 

(That does not mean that I am not keeping an eye out for something interesting ;-).

 

Cheers

 

DCN

 

 

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If your based in Brisbane, and want to stay close-by. I would consider Coastline or Chopperline (Longer established) based at Caloundra QLD.

 

They have constant Commercial theory classes on a yearly basis, and have sent hundreds of pilots through.

 

Be worth talking to one of the instructors there for more of the training point of view. Highly recommend the ground school there.

 

 

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