Guest manxnorton Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Hi, I have a pegasus 15 with a q2 wing which has just failed the besometer test and it also has a damaged keel tube, Ive been advised that to replace the sail and keel tubing would be around the cost of a new wing. I was advised to look for an Airbourne streak 2b wing as a replacement with up to a maximum of 500hrs and something that has been hangered or packed between uses, can any body help me find one of these as until I get something to suit the Pegasus I'm grounded, also does anyone know round about how much I should pay for one with those sort of hours? Thanks in advance, Sean Mcnulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Sean Let me pose you a few thoughts... I assume its a 95.32 registered aircraft (Rego starts with 32 if RAAus registered or T2 if HGFA), which means that the manufacturer of the base and the wing certify the combination together as a complete aircraft to CASA or the British equivalents complete satisfaction. If you want to combine an airborne wing and a Pegasus base on what basis will you be requesting it maintain its 95.32 registration? I pressume neither Pegasus nor Airborne individually will certify the combination (and thats an assumption rather than a statement of fact). The only way as I understand it to tie the 2 together legally will be to remove one of the seats (at least make it non functional as a seat (perhaps remove the seatbelts and having a "This is not a seat" sign on the 2nd Seat?) and then claim registration under 95.10 assuming the weight limitationsof the 95.10 class dont preculde that from occuring. Given CASA's recent focus on the absolute right of a particular aircraft to claim a certain registration class I would expect that any attempt to do what you are suggesting would result in withdrawal of 95.32 registration if its with RAAus (unless either Airborne or Pegasus have and or will certify the combination and you can prove that via a certificate of airworthiness to the Tech Manager to his satisfaction. I would expect at present satisfying the Tech manager will probably be no simple thing to do. If you were to claim that Mr X already has that combination as the basis for continued registration then I expect that would result in 2 groundings not 1. In any event a quick phone call to Airborne in Newcastle (Redhead) will identify if the combination is supported. If not I suggest you dont go down thios path. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I have a pegasus 15 with a q2 wing which has just failed the besometer test and it also has a damaged keel tube, Ive been advised that to replace the sail and keel tubing would be around the cost of a new wing. The last time I got a quote for a sail from Pegasus it was approx AU$3500 - a complete wing was a shade over AU$7000. Even with shipping, the current exchange rate makes this look a pretty competitive solution to me. Incidentally what is the damage to the keel tube ? I was advised to look for an Airbourne streak 2b wing as a replacement I don't know who suggested this but it's very bad advice IMO. At best it wouldn't be legal for all the reasons Andy has outlined - at worst it might not even be safe. Sorry but you really should do the correct thing! Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest manxnorton Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 SeanLet me pose you a few thoughts... I assume its a 95.32 registered aircraft (Rego starts with 32 if RAAus registered or T2 if HGFA), which means that the manufacturer of the base and the wing certify the combination together as a complete aircraft to CASA or the British equivalents complete satisfaction. If you want to combine an airborne wing and a Pegasus base on what basis will you be requesting it maintain its 95.32 registration? I pressume neither Pegasus nor Airborne individually will certify the combination (and thats an assumption rather than a statement of fact). The only way as I understand it to tie the 2 together legally will be to remove one of the seats (at least make it non functional as a seat (perhaps remove the seatbelts and having a "This is not a seat" sign on the 2nd Seat?) and then claim registration under 95.10 assuming the weight limitationsof the 95.10 class dont preculde that from occuring. Given CASA's recent focus on the absolute right of a particular aircraft to claim a certain registration class I would expect that any attempt to do what you are suggesting would result in withdrawal of 95.32 registration if its with RAAus (unless either Airborne or Pegasus have and or will certify the combination and you can prove that via a certificate of airworthiness to the Tech Manager to his satisfaction. I would expect at present satisfying the Tech manager will probably be no simple thing to do. If you were to claim that Mr X already has that combination as the basis for continued registration then I expect that would result in 2 groundings not 1. In any event a quick phone call to Airborne in Newcastle (Redhead) will identify if the combination is supported. If not I suggest you dont go down thios path. Andy Hi Andy, thanks for your feed back, it sounds pretty sensible to me now that you've mentioned it, I'll look for a Q2 Pegasus wing in Aus but realise I'll probably have to get it from the U.K., any ideas on getting one here? Thanks, Sean Mcnulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest manxnorton Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 The last time I got a quote for a sail from Pegasus it was approx AU$3500 - a complete wing was a shade over AU$7000. Even with shipping, the current exchange rate makes this look a pretty competitive solution to me.Incidentally what is the damage to the keel tube ? I don't know who suggested this but it's very bad advice IMO. At best it wouldn't be legal for all the reasons Andy has outlined - at worst it might not even be safe. Sorry but you really should do the correct thing! Cheers John Hi John, the price you mentioned sounds pretty good, was AU$3500 for a sail only?, I was told about AU$5500 sail only and about AU$9000 complete. The damage to the keel tube is a dent in the rear section, (not real bad) apparantly sustained in transport on the way up to me in Cooktown Nth Qld the leading edges are also a bit sus according to the besometer test, I brought the aircraft at auction and didn't have a chance to check it out properly. I had a Drifter years ago and I wasn't really sure what to look for on a Pegasus 15 , the trike has 1150 hour total time and the Rotax 582 has 431hours, it run very smoothly and the rest of the air frame looks in pretty good nick apart from a few little bits and pieces. Would you have any idea of the best way on sourcing a new sail and rear keel section in Australia, failing that can you let me know the people you got the qoute from? It was previously registered T2 HGFA. Thanks for the reply, Sean Mcnulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic36 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Sean, The Keel runs from front to back, i.e there is no "rear keel section". I got one out from Pegasus 4 years ago, it cost about $600. I think the exchange rate may be more favorable ATM which may explain the difference in the estimates you have had. If you do get one make sure the stopper on the back of the mast is the right way up. If not it contacts the keel when you are mounting the wing on the trike and dents the keel tube. John and Andy, why couldn't Sean change his reg to 19 (experimental) ? Of course he would still need to get an expert to make sure the thing flew properly. Not saying that's what he should do, but it would be legal wouldn't it? Regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 That's a question that only the Techman at RAAus or his equivalent at HGFA could answer. My initial thoughts are that 19 reg is for home built and this isn't, rather its like claiming my Cessna body and piper wings should be considered home built, but then at some point home built always relies on someone else's manufactured goods, last I recall aluminium was likely to be beyond the capability and capacity for home manufacture from your own bauxite mine...... So I don't know but I would want to have that answered before I did anything that require large quantities of $ being moved around..... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest manxnorton Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Sean,The Keel runs from front to back, i.e there is no "rear keel section". I got one out from Pegasus 4 years ago, it cost about $600. I think the exchange rate may be more favorable ATM which may explain the difference in the estimates you have had. If you do get one make sure the stopper on the back of the mast is the right way up. If not it contacts the keel when you are mounting the wing on the trike and dents the keel tube. John and Andy, why couldn't Sean change his reg to 19 (experimental) ? Of course he would still need to get an expert to make sure the thing flew properly. Not saying that's what he should do, but it would be legal wouldn't it? Regards Bill Thanks Bill, I had another look at my parts book and what I thought was two pieces is in fact one. Is there any way I could repair the damaged tube, or should I just bite the bullet and get a sail and tube from P&M, also who could fit that sort of stuff? Thanks again, Sean Mcnulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic36 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Thanks Bill,I had another look at my parts book and what I thought was two pieces is in fact one. Is there any way I could repair the damaged tube, or should I just bite the bullet and get a sail and tube from P&M, also who could fit that sort of stuff? Thanks again, Sean Mcnulty. Straight forward job fitting the keel, but I have never done a sail. Your Cfi could probably help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 John and Andy, why couldn't Sean change his reg to 19 (experimental) ? Of course he would still need to get an expert to make sure the thing flew properly. Not saying that's what he should do, but it would be legal wouldn't it? Regards Bill 19 category aircraft come under CAO 95.55 which specifically excludes weightshift controlled aircraft (there wouldn't really be a need for 95.32 if they could be registered under the same CAO as fixed-wings). Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Hi John,the price you mentioned sounds pretty good, was AU$3500 for a sail only?, I was told about AU$5500 sail only and about AU$9000 complete. The damage to the keel tube is a dent in the rear section, (not real bad) apparantly sustained in transport on the way up to me in Cooktown Nth Qld the leading edges are also a bit sus according to the besometer test, I brought the aircraft at auction and didn't have a chance to check it out properly. I had a Drifter years ago and I wasn't really sure what to look for on a Pegasus 15 , the trike has 1150 hour total time and the Rotax 582 has 431hours, it run very smoothly and the rest of the air frame looks in pretty good nick apart from a few little bits and pieces. Would you have any idea of the best way on sourcing a new sail and rear keel section in Australia, failing that can you let me know the people you got the qoute from? It was previously registered T2 HGFA. Thanks for the reply, Sean Mcnulty. The quotes were directly from P&M in the UK - I'd suggest you get in touch with them. If you call, ask for Roger Patrick or just send send an email to [email protected] IIRC there are a few parts on the Quantum which are lifed at 1000 hours and there have also been many service bulletins over the 20-odd years they were in production. Some of these affect the wing so it might be worth discussing these as well unless there is very clear evidence in the aircraft logbook that all the necessary inspections and replacements have been carried out. All the service bulletins (& the aircraft manual if you don't have one) can be downloaded from the P&M website. Hope that helps John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Thanks Bill,Is there any way I could repair the damaged tube, or should I just bite the bullet and get a sail and tube from P&M ? I think (hope) you know the answer to this ! Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Straight forward job fitting the keel, but I have never done a sail. Fitting a sail on a Q2 isn't as easy as the later Airborne wings but its not rocket science. Might need a bit of leverage to get the tip webbing on. Your Cfi could probably help. Unless he was the one who advised you to fit an Airborne wing in which case I'd find somebody more responsible Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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