seb7701 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 People - I'm looking at the pros and cons of an x-air as a first aircraft, compared to the beloved drifter with which I am more familiar. As can be guessed from the choices, $$ are a concern and it would appear that for the same dollars, a much newer X-air can be had, if not brand new, compared to a drifter. Can anyone advise as to the handling characteristics of an x-air compared to a drifter, as well as how they handle rough strips? (seeing as they are still a nose wheel aircraft) I am interested to get some thoughts on whether they are a glorified thruster or much more than that. For $15000 + engine & instruments, they certainly offer a VERY complete kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael Coates Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Note Michael Coates has been banned from this site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb7701 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 Thanks Michael - I'll do that. I was waiting to hear from you..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Hi Seb i have been looking at either the X-Air Standard or Hanuman for a long time now and can tell you for me when i get the money i will be (if i go the X-Air route) be getting the Standard. realy good Bang for Buck and will get into the makshift RWY's i want. Michael has had a few talks with me on the phone, nice bloke and willing to give his time to fill you in on her. now can someone lend me $35,000 for one :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb7701 Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 Yeah, there's no doubt about it, there ain't much missing from the deal. Firstly, I reckon even I could assemble one, but aside from that, wiring, engine mounts, basically everything bar engine, prop and instruments is included. A lot of manufacturers claim that, however there always seems to be a lot of extra bits and pieces that still need to be had to finish the picture. I like em. Just want to know how they would handle and unscheduled landing in a paddock. I have 100% faith in a drifter for that job, having done it once, but have an allergy to nose wheels, hence my x-air apprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Mate in my opinion they will handle it as good as the drifter. you may opt to put slightly bigger tyres on her ? i feel the X-Air Standard will preform better in short field, rougher landings than the drifter, i am aiming to land in places like model aircraft fields, beach, bush ect hence my wanting an X-Air standard. also do not look over the fact it has proper suspension which will absorb alot of the shock of off field landings, i am not sure what sort of "spring" the drifter has..... as for building i have the confidence i could build one and fly it, with a little training as i have only been a passenger in x-airs and thrusters, you will have an advantage as you have come from low performance aircraft but be aware of the fact you are coming from a pusher to a tractor, i have only high performance endorements so i will need a conversion and training. i am hopping to get an X-Air Standard with 582 decked out with all the goodies but you can get one in the air for about $22K give or take. and the hanuman just a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb7701 Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 The hanuman looks great and is even more of a 'real' aircraft, yet the engine cost probably wrecks things just a little if going for the 4 stroke, as well as the extra 3 grand odd for the airframe. Story of my life - I always seem to be short by 3 grand.... X -Air standard does look like the go and the shorter take of is what makes it competitive against the drifter's sturdiness. The high speed/low speed thing is kind of funny. I fly drifters and J160/SP. The SP especially, lands at the same speed as the drifter, so really, aside from the navigational side of things, where is the high speed / low speed relevance?? Take it from me, with low speed A/C, whilst they aren't real good travellers, they make up for it by creating a landing opportunity in many places a Jab can't. If I get a prop stop, I want to be in the drifter again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 the hanuman will take off in shorter distance with the rotax 582 than the hanuman with the jab 2.2 in her but top speed will be afected a little, if you like the hanuman go with it and a 582. people say 2 strokes are crap but provided you do all the right things by it it will do the right thing by you. with rec aviation there are 2 endorsements which are high performance and low performance, if you got your ticket in the drifter you probably have low performance, if you done a conversion to the jab you might want to check your licence and see if you got the high performance with it if not you may be endorced in a jab but legaly un able to fly it. and you are right about wanting to be in a high drag low performance aircraft when an engine dies en route, you can land in a car park space at coles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David F Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 X air Hi Seb X airs are a great starter aircraft I have a share in one and did my first 30 or so solo hours in it.The suspension is excellent a slow plane but can land almost anywhere but at what cost. If a new kit is worth about 35 k all up then I recon there are better options around.I have seen second hand models for around 20 k with the doom and gloom around at present I think its a buyers market.I have seen several 4 stroke 80 hp aircraft for sale around the 25 to 30 mark I would be taking a look at these for my money. Regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael Coates Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Note Michael Coates has been banned from this site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 true michael, but if you read the posts carefully i wanted mine spec'd up and also stated you could get one ready to fly for around 22K which is not far from you figure what i originally had written i am hopping to get an X-Air Standard with 582 decked out with all the goodies but you can get one in the air for about $22K give or take. and the hanuman just a little more. this one was directed at myself now can someone lend me $35,000 for one sorry i am unable to put quotes in.... so had to do it manualy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael Coates Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Note Michael Coates has been banned from this site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Where did you get the 35k figure from??. For that price I would be tempted to get one of the second hand ones that are up for sale, get it checked out properly and go on an overseas holiday with the change. I fly an xair std and didn't pay any where near that complete. My Xair std is great fun. Bought and put it together myself, now has 50 hrs up and going great. Great support from Michael Coates and really good on line fo users forum. (I am biased). The suspension is a lifesaver. (got into trouble the other day on short final, easterly gusts (knocked the headset off my head!!!). Landed fairly hard but no damage to the frame or suspension (believe me I checked). They are not a speed machine and are designed for fun. Just my opinion Maynard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 hi guy's i want an X-Air with X-Ponder, dynon, strobe ECT, yeah i know i dont need it but i want it, anything wrong with that :)... plus i want the spats,front mud guard,doors better battery, david clarke head sets and a radio which will alow me to listen to 2 channels and TX on one so if i am on a trip with someone i can be on the chat freq and be listening on the area one, all of this costs money, is not nececary but i like it... having said that michael is right you can be in the air cheap i spoke with him a while ago and to get in the air with the basics was a cheap as chips... oh and i should have mentioned i want to build and fly my own, there are some good bargains out there but want a new one..... well no one has coughed up for me as yeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb7701 Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 Thanks Dave/Maynard - certainly makes them sound attractive. Glad to hear that there are still some great products at the lower end of the $$ scale. Also love the fact that a nice trailer set up can be done should hangerage become a bit difficult! Adrian - you may have miscontrued the comment re the endorsements. I am familiar with 'em, just don't fully agree with 'em.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 yep agree with you seb they are a waste of time. I f you learn on a drifter/thruster ect and go to the 160, sp or any thing high performance you will obviousely be trained on the fundamentals of that particular aircraft before you are let loose, I also don't agree with the 2 stroke / 4 stroke one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb7701 Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 Here here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Hey, been a Drifter man for a while but took a 582 Xair for a squirt, and would have to say I was reasonably impressed. Thought it turned tighter than the Drifter,if you were say mustering, and fairly solid feel to it, all the way. The gear pretty much gives you a soft touchdown most times, and it should handle an off -field arrival or two Ok. Don't know how it would do on the beach though, with the narrow tires, and the nose wheel, the sand would need to be pretty hard. Even the Drifter with 15x6 mains needed a wider tail wheel tire to taxi properly on sand. For the $$$$$'s would be a good first machine, I would expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb7701 Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Thanks Maj. You answered the question I wondered most, namely the handling comparison. Interesting to hear that the handling is somewhat more agile than drifter. Funny you mentioned tyres - when looking the other day, the first thing I thought of was how there is NO room for larger nose wheel tyre, and I assume mains would have minimal room for enlargement. Whilst I like the idea of Savannah's larger tyres, I guess the x-air might be lacking in the horsepower to comfortably drag any sort of larger tyres through the air comfortably. Thanks for the thoughts, Seb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 No Seb, I don't really think that there is not enough power to drag the larger tires through the air, as the Drifter for instance does it fine with the same power. The narrower tires are less draggy I'm sure, but I think it's more just what the designer thought looked ok at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rocko Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Hanuman in the air for $35K? Good luck! ;) Lets see how it really caculates for a Hanuman: Aircraft: $20K Jabiru: $14K (with freighting) That's $34 already. Add a semi-decent instrument cluster: $3K min Radio, with antenna, and a battery/bracket/loom/aerial to run it: $2K (at least) All the other bits an pieces you'll have to tinker with: Allow $2K Prop and spinner: $1K Decent aviation GPS: $1k-$2K So, up to $43+K Then... Inspections, weight and balance, test flying hours and costs for mods during test flights: $2K min That's not even allowing another $3K for a transponder, and the costs of a Rotax added on top. (and, having flown it with the Jab, my opinion is the Rotax is not required). It was also when the dollar was 0.90US, and I bought all the main avionics stuff from Spruce at a great exchange rate. I spent at least $45-$48K on my Hanuman. It looked great finished. But I'm sorry, but anyone saying $35K flying is kidding themselves. If you want a bare bones aircraft, do all the test flying, then you'll spend less, sure. You'll also sell it for a lot less at the end, since most people want at least a reasonable amount of flight and engine instrumentation. The cost of the kit and engine are not the total costs of building an aircraft. Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rocko Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Oh, and the standard Xair suspension worked brilliantly on rough grounds taxiing and on the strip. It was smooth as, compared to anything else I've been in. The Hanuman sometimes felt like you were doing a bush track in a beat up Landrover with no shockies. It is not the same ride as a standard Xair, which is exceptional. However, it still worked perfectly well. Handled everything we threw at it. Then again, the Hanuman cruised fast at 96kts flat out most days (measured with GPS, not ASI), and comfortably at 85kts. It floats and glides amazingly well, so the approach speeds were 45-50kts. It landed in stupidly short distances, if required. Sometimes annoying landing in 150M, then having to taxi 1000M to the hangar, so just float way, way, waaaaay down the runway for a nice smooth landing ;) With me on board at 110kg, and a near full fuel tank, I regularly achieved 1000+fpm climb, even in summer, and would normally hit 500 feet before clearing the end of the runway. Cooling wasn't a problem, ever, and I could never fault the Jab 2200a. So you pay for performance. Happens a lot in aviation ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rocko Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging the Hanuman's cost at all. Basically every kit aircraft is the same. If they have "everything" included, you'll simply pay for it all as part of the kit cost. I'm simply saying that costs WILL blow out, beyond the cost of the kit and engine. Expect it. (Mumbles... Oh, and a set of good headsets: add $500....PLB $600......mumbles....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashy Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I saw an x-air have an engine failure on take off a couple of years back, in nil wind and at about 200ft the pilot was able to do a full 360 deg turn and land back on the runway in the direction he started in with height to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb7701 Posted December 14, 2008 Author Share Posted December 14, 2008 There's never a person with a handicam when you need one is there! Would have liked to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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