moy71 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Hi folks. Just finished reading the rotax website, specifically the 582 2stroke where it mentions the recommended Time Between Overhaul is 300hrs. Just so I understand correctly, at the 300 hr mark I am obligated to put it in for service similar to having my car serviced right? Well after serviced by Rotax techs, does the 582 get another 300 hrs? and then the service cycle repeats? If so, at what point is the 582 engine thrown away? or does it? And lastly the Rotax 912 is rated at 1500. Same principle except 1500 instead of 300 hours? Thanks for the clarification. PS... how much (ballpark) are the overhauls cost these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DBT Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Overhaul usually means MAJOR service. ie. more like a rebuild. Most engines have routine service between 50-100hours, with 100 usually being the maximum interval. I'm not familiar with 2 strokes specifically, but this applies to acft piston engines in general. I recall someone saying it is not always economical to overhaul/rebuild 2 stroke engines, but I'm not sure how accurate this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Well after serviced by Rotax techs, does the 582 get another 300 hrs? and then the service cycle repeats? If so, at what point is the 582 engine thrown away? or does it? QUOTE] two strokes 300hrs. you can replace it or rebuild it. from what has been said in past threads if the crank needs replacing it is more cost effective to replace the unit rebuild parts . Seems Rotax prices them to make a new engine more cost effective. looks like they don't want high time 'cores out there. time in service. on condition. top end only. timed lifed,are probably terms you need to understand as well. on condition is well if it has or looks like it's broke replace it. it may look ok but may be out of the manufacturers engineering tolerances. the part is usually measured down to thousands of an inch. some may have to be within .005 + or - or even less. sometime during the life of the engine both two strokes and 4 strokes may need a top end overhaul 2 strokes are more basic usually requiering piston ring and pin, little end bearing head gaskets water cooled engines a little more. 4 strokes are a little more involved with valves and valve train to consider.time life are componets that are replaced when their time in service is reached regardless of their condition. usually is a part that has a history of failing. some two stoke owners of single seat aircraft prefer to run their engine past the recommend TBO and stick to 'on condition' as they usually know their engines operating history and how they have been treated. hope this will help a bit and others will come on with their own personal hands on. Ozzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moy71 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 well if you average around 3 hours per week flying, that comes to around 156 hours per year. that being the case, after 2 years your 300 hours are up and you are obliged to buy a new engine? that's around $9k every two years ?! that being the case, no wonder some people end up buying the Rotax 912 as it is rated at 1500 hrs (or roughly 9.6 years) before the need to be replaced. so what's the price of a 912 these days? $20K ?? my gosh, my plan to buy a 2nd hand engine has just become more difficult :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 The 300 hours is VERY conservative and it's not mandatory (under recently modified RA-Aus regulrations) to replace the crank or engine at that time. Perhaps Tony Hayes might be a good one to ask about this (Tony are you there?), he would have seen heaps of high time Thruster 2-strokes out there I would imagine.......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Another thing to take into consideration is the fuel consumption of a 582 compared to 912. compare the fuel burn costs over the life of the two engines and i think you will find that the initial higher outlay of the 912 becomes more appealing over the cheaper purchase price of the two stroke ozzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moy71 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 the more i think about it, the 912 appears to be the way to go with its "long-life". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 With reliability being paramount in aircraft, I'd much rather have the 912 than a 582 2-stroke if it meant a few more thousand. 912's rarely stop whilst you are supplying them with fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Quote BRENTC... 912's rarely stop whilst you are supplying them with fuel. Gee that's any interesting statement/observation coming from a Jab driver !. Have we seen a massive change of opinion here ??........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 My opinion of Rotax engines, particularly the 80 hp hasn't changed. They are moderately reliable if looked after, however they are expensive to purchase at first and for parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Moderatly reliable ??....please explain !!.......................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Don't get yourself into a false sense of security, they do stop occasionally! No engine is perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleemanj Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Hi folks. Just finished reading the rotax website, specifically the 582 2stroke where it mentions the recommended Time Between Overhaul is 300hrs I'm treasurer for a club in NZ which currently operates 3 582 powered aircraft. It means: strip the engine down, replace all the small stuff - rings, bearings, pins, seals etc, check everything else including crank, put it back togethor, do it again in another 300. Now, 300hrs is conservative, in a traning environment of course conservatism rules (although we do push it out to about 330), in private hands I think it would be fair to say that most 582s out there are run much much longer than that between overhauls (if they get overhauled!) Cost wise, I budget about $3000 NZD (that's about $2300 AUD today) for the 300hr, some will be cheap, some will be expensive, but it averages out about right. Is the 912 cheaper in the long run than the 582? Yes, it's fair to say it is (by how much I can't say, it's been a long time since we operated a 912 here and I don't have figures for it). Unfortunately with the 912 you have a BIG bill to begin with. Also bears mentioning that the overhaul cost for a 912 is also going to be significantly higher than the 582. All in all, the 582 is a perfectly good aircraft engine, don't let the 300hr rebuild put you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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