CT9000

.......was pretty good for business at the local bunny farm sorry roo farm sorry pet food sorry local chichen farm.....

......Tortice towing a house..... 

7 hours ago, facthunter said:

IF you are going too  slow controls feel vague, light and unresponsive. There may  also be prestall buffeting. The nose may drop uncommanded.. This should be fully covered early in  straight and level flight.. Unload the wings and accelerate the plane. Without power you''ll use the normal 150 odd feet as a minimum. You shouldn't FEAR stalls. Just treat them with the  respect they deserve and APPY the correctly learned response  and don't do the reactive ones automatically.. You'll also be very unlikely to spin if you don't pull the stick  back.   Nev

Thanks for the addition Nev, I think we are on the same page. I would like to add that speed is not the primary problem in a stall it is the wing load. The normal quoted stall speed is at 1G and is a bit meaning less. eg. if you have a quoted stall speed of say 45Kts. and push foward till the seat load gets light the stall speed may be less than half that, if you are in a steep level turn the stall speed may well be 1.5 times that cos you are pulling back to maintain level. It all comes down to load.

19 hours ago, Roundsounds said:

Stick position can correlate to exceeding the critical angle. The “stall stick position” seems to be gathering momentum at a similar rate to the Beggs Muller spin recovery technique, which I see as a dangerous trend. There are a number of factors where the critical angle can be exceeded without achieving the “SSP”. CofG and gusts being a couple. 
How would a pilot respond differently in the case described in this post given it had / had not stalled? 

The stall stick position can vary it is not a fixed thing but is real.   Of course the CG will move it.

Discussion of SSP is a good thing to help understand what is actually happening during the stall.

As far as the response goes, by all means step on the rudder to stop the yaw.

If a gust caused the wing to stall it would be only momentary and would have recovered from the stall condition before the pilot had time to react.

I agree that the teaching methods may not be all that good. It is far smarter to teach that unloading the wing is what fixes the stall which is exactly what reducing back stick does. 

On 19/02/2024 at 8:16 AM, cscotthendry said:

I had a situation some time ago and it got me thinking about how we teach stalls.

I was on a short final on a fairly gusty day. The gusts were varying 10-12 Kts above / below the stated wind speed. When I was about 150' AGL, the plane started an uncommanded left bank. I started to correct in the usual manner with a slight pressure on the ailerons, but the plane didn't respond as I expected it to. Thinking I was caught up in a Willy-Willy or rotor, I decided to go around. From my training, I pushed the nose over sharply, gave it full throttle and began bringing the flaps in. I've done plenty of go arounds, so they hold no mystery or fear for me.

I took me a while to figure out that I had let my airspeed bleed off and flying out of a gust, had put me into a stall. It wasn't anything like how I encountered stalls in my training / BFRs.

In training and review sessions, we're always taught to pull the power back, keep the altitude level by steadily pulling back on the elevators and then, just as the plane starts to buffet, snap that last little bit of elevator to make the nose snap over as we enter the stall.

 

But that's NOT how it happens in real life. The stall can be insidious and you might not recognize it as a stall at first. I'm certain that this has happened to too many pilots who didn't survive to learn the real lesson. 
 

I believe that including that snap over at the point of stall gives pilots the wrong impression of how stalls feel.

 

What say you all?

Re reading this story over a cuppa. I do not believe that the aircraft did actually stall. To stall you need to reach the "stall stick position" otherwise you cannot get to the critical angle of attack and therefore no stall. Yes it dropped a wing but that is not necessarily a stall just a response to a gust.   Stalls are not to be feared just need to be managed.

.....all the wildlife. Mean time CT having just secured a bulk supply of 22 Magnum ammo wants to know where all these giant cats can be found......

....first nation inhabitants that can advise on the social support system lack of fairness....... 

8 hours ago, turboplanner said:

[Could CT explain which photo he was talking about - there are two - Squealer]

 

Turbs. you need to get out a bit more. Maybe I should have mentioned avref

......all the real pilots will know that the above photo is only a side view of the 03/21 runway. A bit short but plenty wide.........

......had a bit of a laugh at the idea of a ferris wheel because although safe in Tassie they are a danger up north becuase of the light planes flying into them causing terror to the wheels riders...... 

.......ready to take aim with their budget balancing equipment, sorry safety, sorry speed, (you get the idea) radar.......

......the lost Polair chopper from Vic closing in fast from behind......

.....a new organization was formed called Community Attack Security Authority to police all these people innocently going about their business.....  

.....prepared for impact as the wombat ran head down arse up straight at the train.....

......then the driver remembered the time he hit a wombat  with a car, it was the same as hitting a rock and wasn't even angry but wrote the car off just the same. Rocks can derail trains......

......do anything at all to help the poor train as it approached the even more agitated wombat. We all know what will happen to the train when they meet, angry wombats are not to be messed with...... 

......not safe being anywhere near an angry wombat.....

.....may be the least of our problems as he looked over at the very pissed off wombat coming out of his now flooded home......

.....then admitted that the aero routine was not planned he was actually trying to work out how to control pitch with power seeing as the elevator was jammed with an empty bottle......

Highest best quality major engineering advancement made in superior factory in China.

....they were firing frozen oranges from their cannons, one hit from these could cause some harm to the heli. Not to mention the vibration from the blades because Sanjay and Ranju Singh had drilled a hole in one blade tip to chain the machine up till the bill was paid back at the servo......

.......may I suggest that we could buy back all that 95 petrol for half price because it may not be very pleasing to your turbine engine. We could also do you a special deal on some very rare kerosine that we just happen to have for only fifteen dollars a litre. We keep that here for special visitors...... 

.......all went quiet on the rotary wing police enforcement device as the pilot realized that after four hours airborne with an endurance of 238 mins. this was maybe a bit predictable........

.....the poor police motorcyclist turned up all battered and bruised bleeding everywhere, "what happened to you" asked the cuntstable. "I was chasing a Morris Marina but he left me so fast that I thought I had stopped and got off to have a look"......

......my marina ( a Morris ref. ) .....