BreezyLog

Gidday Blackhawk799. Congrats on your journey so far.

Firstly, there are no stupid questions in aviation. No one knows everything. Better to ask and live than assume and pay the price.

Some really good advice on this thread. Please be aware of the following.

1. The RAAus Tech Form 13 is NOT a certification of airworthiness.

2. Have the owner perform a "Desktop" audit. Create a list of all applicable maintenance tasks that "should" have been carried out on the aircraft (Aircraft Maint Sched & SBs, Engine Maint Sched & SBs, Prop Maint Sched & SBs, RAAus ANs, CASA AD's if applicable, CAO 100.5 tasks) and send it to the owner to have him verify the TTAF and date each of these tasks were last done from the aircraft logbook. This will give you a complete up to date status of the aircraft before you dispatch yourself or an inspector to look at the aircraft. This will take a fair bit of research but you will be learning about your responsibilities as an aircraft owner along the way.

You can then better decide or negotiate on how big a project you will be buying. Checkout flightsafetysolutions.com.au to find out more. Happy to help with any part of your journey. Dont make an emotional purchase. There are plenty of aircraft out there so do your research and make smart, safe decisions.

Last comment - Kit plane??? Some kits are built absolutely awesome and some kit builders went to the Homer Simpson School for Aeroplane Builders. Look close.

Flightrite is correct. Its like buying a used car. High hours and hi useage is always a consideration, however if I maintain the aircraft IAW the maintenance schedule, and have a good attitude towards airworthiness, then all aircraft should be as "Airworthy" as each other regardless of their age. Try this process. Years ago there was an auction and part of the auction was an old Piper Pacer. It needed recovering and a new engine. The instrumentation was typical of the era and the interior was fair. I started looking at what the average price of similar aircraft were and then discounted an engine overhaul or replacement and the expected cost of a recover. The figure I arrived at was $5K. At auction, the bidding started on this "LOT" at $20 and it climbed up to......You guessed it..$5 and stopped dead. Everyone did the same math. (I dont know who bought it but thats the process. YOU have to determine what you are prepared to pay for it and the seller has to be prepared to let it go for that. Please do NOT forget to ensure "Airworthiness. Goodluck

Hi Skippy, cscotthendry is well on the right track.

Skippy:

I think you need a lot more info than that.

1) How has it been maintained? Sure, training aircraft have to be L2 maintained, but there are L2s and there are L2s, if you know what I mean. The appearance of the aircraft, especially under the cowlings will tell you something about this.

2) Was it hangared or left outside? What shape is the paintwork and the glareshield top in? Is there any evidence of corrosion? How do the windows, especially the windscreen look? Scratches? Discoloration? Cracks etc?

3) What is the general condition of the interior?

4) How does the engine run? Does it use oil? What condition is the prop in WRT scratches, chips etc. Has the prop been repaired for stone chips? Has the aircraft ever had a prop strike?

I could go on pretty much all day with this, but I think you get the drift by now.

If you know a good L2 who hasn't been involved with the maintenance of the aircraft, get them to do a pre-purchase inspection and report. Then if it's a common aircraft like a Jab or a Tecnam (which most school aircraft are) have a look online to get a feel for the value of the aircraft. Then armed with the report, start negotiating with the seller.

The short answer is: there's no formula for discounting a used aircraft.

The right price is what the seller and the buyer agree on.

The purpose of an aircraft maintenance schedule is to keep the aircraft in an "Airworthy Condition". What this means is that you will most likely never keep the aircraft in the condition it was the day it was built because of the aging process, coupled with normal wear and tear, accidents and incidents and the last is the owners attitude towards airworthiness. Lets look at these parts briefly.

AGING AIRCRAFT.

Since manufacture everything on this planet ages. Aircraft are no different. The Cessna SIDS program is one manufacturers process to help owners maintain airworthiness to address aging. CASA has some good information and some videos and DVDs on the subject. Look at your prospective purchase and check nuts, bolts, brackets and areas where water will accumulate after flight and check for corrosion or deformation. Types of corrosion will differ between the aircraft construction type. Composite aircraft fatigue different to Metal, which are different to wood, which are different to fabric. Check the Aircraft Maintenance Manual for any recommended Corrosion Protection or Inspection System. If there is not one, read AC43-13 about this subject.

NORMAL WEAR & TEAR

What the title says. The manufacturers aircraft maintenance schedule SHOULD provide a "Life Limit" or "Overhaul/Service Schedule" for individual parts that "WEAR". They typically wont do it for the carpet or the head liner or the windows but may provide limitations on parts of the aircraft that, If they fail, can place the aircraft in an "Un-Airworthy State". Items such as Fuel pumps, Engines, Propellers, Wing Attaching bolts and fitting on Aerobatic aircraft as given in the example used by Facthunter. Look at the ROTAX 5 Year Rubber Life requirement. Classic example.

Other parts or systems may not be listed in the AMM and are required by Legislation, such as CAO100.5 system checks. Does your Pitot/Static system work correctly, is your Transponder System calibrated correctly and so on. Also, associated are Airworthiness Directives and RAAus AN's. These mandatory requirements are derrived due to past accidents and incident and are there to help you maintain your aircraft in an "AIRWORTHY STATE".

ACCIDENT & INCIDENTS

If the aircraft has been damaged, then it needs to be repaired IAW (in accordance with) "Approved or Acceptable Data:. These should be recorded in the aircraft records.

OWNERS ATTITUDE

Like buying a used car, you can tell pretty quick if the owner has maintained their aircraft appropriately. Some people are anal and do things correctly (some to extreme and they do almost resemble the new aircraft) and some wont spend 5cents on their aircraft. Seen both and it shows.

OVERVIEW

I would think that a reputable flying school would have well maintained aircraft that keep them in an "AIRWORTHY STATE". Do your homework, download the prospective AMM (Aircraft Maintenance Manual) and get yourself a list of all the tasks associated with the aircraft, research AD,s AN,s and Service Bulletins for Aircraft, Engine, Propeller and installed components by the individual serial number. THEN, check the aircraft records. I mean REALLY checkout the aircraft records. Ask for a "Maintenance Run-out Sheet or Maintenance Due List" to find out when all the aircraft maintenance was last done, who it was done by and how long is remaining for each task.

The only thing I will suggest is DO get a Pre-Purchase Inspection. A proper one. DO NOT get the maintainer who has looked after the aircraft for the last 10years. He will be "Too Familiar" with the aircraft.

I have attached an article I wrote many years ago and it is still relevant. If you would like help, contact us as we can do the complete Maintenance Requirement list for you based on the aircraft and component serial numbers you provide.

BUYING A PLANE ARTICLE.pdf

In the UK the NPPL has 3 categories, SSEA, Microlight (<450kg or 472.5 with a BRS fitted) or SLMG.

lee-wave, Hi from down-under. Please excuse my ignorance but i am not familiar with the UK Regulations. What is a NPPL and does the UK have a system for people to fly Light Sport Aircraft without having a PPL?

Good question - or if you decide you don't want to use it anymore, or your prospective purchaser doesn't want to use it. I am currently developing some online software to automate admin overhead for aircraft syndicates, as well as an EASA compliant digital log book and a few other things. One of my later plans was a simple a/c tech log - not quite as comprehensive as Breezy Log - but it is intended to be free.. with the ability to upload or download all of the syndicate or personal data at any time or come and go as you please. I can see the benefit of the Breezy Log solution and noted on their web site that they are looking to develop for FAA and EASA markets.. The record keeping requirements for EASA under Part M are crazy and cost us about £800 or so of our annual maintenance bill. Part M lite was introduced and to be honest I am not sure what has changed in terms of record keeping, but a LAME llosing a decent chunk of their fees in an annual based purely on hours of work may not be terribly happy.

 

I couldn't see anything on their web site that mentioned the portability of your data.. But I am sure they have something to protect you in the case of bankruptcy at the very least.. May be worth checking with them as it looks a very comprehensive solution for not a lot of money in the scheme of things

Hi Jerry_A. Cool. EASA is an interesting animal for sure. BreezyLog allows any pilot to download the details of any aircraft they have flown (that is on the BreezyLog system). As you would be aware, software development is a living animal and takes up many nights. As a LAME myself, I wanted BreezyLog to alert the owners LAME (maintainer) to what is coming up. As the pilot enters their flight information in "Real Time" on their phone or tablet, when a scheduled maintenance task gets within 20%, an email is sent to the owner and any authorised maintainer alerting of the impending maintenance task.

Thanks for the input.

 

The only question I have with systems like this, where the data is quite valuable, is what happens 4 or 5 years from now, if the company goes broke. COVID has shown us that ANY company, no matter how big or small, can be vulnerable.

 

I am not fore or against - just thinking out loud.

Hey BirdDog. Understand your concern. No one wants to go broke but as you said, big or small all can fall. BreezyLog allows the user with the click of 1 button to download the entire Aircraft Records including ADs, in a .pdf in a format that is compliant with CAO 100.5(3). You can do this as many times and as often as you like and store the file as your own back-up.

On Fly Rotax there is an area where you can do a search on engine number for all SBs etc. Rotax Aircraft Engines - Technical Documentation - Rotax Aircaft Engines Some will already be incorporated in your engine, depending on when it was manufactured, but it gives a good list as a start, then it is easy to keep up to date by enrolling with R.O.A.N who will send you an email with a link to any further SBs Rotax-Owner.com - CB Registration. Registration is free if you only need the email updates.

 

The Breezy Log was demonstrated in one of the RAAus PDPs and seems to have been developed for a school or maintenance facility with up to 80 aircraft. It can call up all relevant SBs etc for the different types of Aircraft within the school or maintenance facility. Looks and works well for that type of outfit but for the one pilot with one aircraft I cannot see that it would be practical to use. You need specific information for your particular aircraft, both engine and airframe. If it is LSA then the Aircraft Manufacturer is responsible for letting you know the relevant SBs etc for your aircraft so I would not be paying someone else to do it.

Hi SLB. Breezylog is outstanding for flying schools and clubs. but it is also excellent for the private owner. Some extra benefits for the private owner is that you can track your BFR, Medical (if applicable), registration and insurance renewal date. At our flying school, we used to use Excel and it was comprehensive BUT every week, we had to add the hours, correct the errors and enter them into Excel. Now our pilots just use Breezylog on their phone or tablet, enter their flights and the aircraft records (including all components fitted to the aircraft) are updated. Maintenance forecasting is done. Airworthiness Directives are automatically updated every 24hrs from the CASA website and you are only notified if it affects your aircraft or equipment. No more getting bugged about A380 problems. We are working on SB alerts the same way BUT as you may be aware, whilst the Manufacturer is supposed to let you know, we have found that most LSA manufacturers or their agents dont even know who owns their aircraft in Australia. So how would they let you know. Some dont even publish SB's on their website. We are trying to fix this to make the information easy to find for owners and operators.

It's a bit more complicated than that, but not much.

I want something similar to the military system I'm used to using.

I want to be able to load serial numbers of my few maintenance managed items and have them tracked and alert me for both hours and date based maintenance. For example engine 5yr rubber replacements is date based, as are ASI and altimeter cal and 50 hrs for oil and filter changes. Extra items also come up for 100 hourly.

I want to be able to raise unserviceabilities and sign them off, and record daily inspections (or before flight servicings for the military term) as well as fuel and oil replenishments.

Most importantly , I want it to be standalone, no cloud based or subscription stuff.

Hi M61A1. I am also ex-military and spend a few years in the Middle East helping the Oman Air Force move from a Cardex system to full digital. Breezylog contain a "Parts Store" where any component (even consumables) can be loaded and tracked. Their serviceability state can be controlled and you can update the overhaul or inspection action. Documents such as release notes and maintenance reports can be uploaded against the specific items. We even have an "Aircraft Assembly" function that will show you the current "Build" of the aircraft by ATA locations showing which component is fitted to the location by Part Number and Serial Number and what maintenance schedule it is attached to. BreezyLog will allow for tracking of ANY parameter, Flight time, Calendar, Landings, .... anything. You can make up your own. You can manage all Scheduled maintenance tasks and create Un-Scheduled maintenance tasks. You can create a Workscope and perform a final sign-off (similar to CASA Schedule 6 requirements) When utilizing BreezyLog on your phone or tablet to "Start" and "End" a flight, you will enter fuel and oil uplifts so you can comply with AD/ENG/4 if applicable. Entering fuel QTY at the start of the flight is mandatory but entering fuel qty at the end is optional. If you do enter both, you can easily record fuel and oil usage at a rate/hr. Again, like jackc, we will discuss in house about "Standalone". Please visit my.breezylog.com and log in to our testing account with [email protected] password Tryme007 Let me know what you think and if you have any suggestions we would love to hear them.

Had a bit more of a look and it’s tied to Breezylog, that appears to be a WEB interface? Must run cloud based? Now Breezylog wants $499 and that seems a setup fee? Then $22 per month? Went to it’s data registration page that came up in Spanish. With the information it needs, that data can also be used to set up the new AMLRS software. So, IF you already have Breezylog then most of your data can be imported across to AMLRS?

Being cloud based goes against all my principles of data execution and management. Third party data storage is the scourge of the earth. I will keep all my data backed up myself, thanks.

so, it looks like AMLRS or Breezylog are for not me.

Hi Jackc, thanks for alerting to the Spanish thing? Are you able to provide a link where this happens please. We have not looked at Europe yet :-) You are correct, the $499 for the Setup is a detailed review of your Aircraft, Engine, Propeller and any other identified equipment that may have ICAW (Instructions for continuing airworthiness) by their serial number (i.e. your aircraft). I understand your concern for 3rd party data, however it is currently the only way for the system to be used to allow maintainers and other pilots access the system to update flights and maintenance activities. I will discuss with the team regarding private accounts and storage.

The ATSB will always mention the maintenance records although they may have no bearing on the accident.

 

The "log book review service" as I understand it does not actually look at the log book, it is providing a list of all AD's, service bulletins and CAO 100.5 that need to be compiled with. Hopefully this is done for a specific aircraft serial number.

Hi Thruster88. Correct. The Template provided is specific for your Aircraft, Engine, Propeller and any other components you identify by their Serial Number. Correct again in that it is a list of all scheduled maintenance requirements for the aircraft and identified components. The template is to provide the owner with awareness of what is required in order to maintain their aircraft not only IAW the regulations but for improving safety. Many LSA manufacturers have less than useful websites and we contact them direct to obtain the required info for our customers.